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202 troubles

Started by Kenny C, July 07, 2010, 12:07:41 AM

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Kenny C

I bought a 1937 202 about a month ago it has a ding when i pick up the handset and it is wired the same as when I got it and it will not break dial tone when I dial. I am going to fix the dinging with a capacitor but what do I do about the dialtone
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Phonesrfun

Kenny:

You're going to have to send photos of the inside of the base of the phone and the subset so we can see how they are wired.  Otherwise, it could be many things and we would be asking a hundred questions.
-Bill G

Kenny C

it is on  Kellogg 15-G dial and should it have capacitors inside of the phone?
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Kenny C

here is a better shot
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Phonesrfun

Well first of all, you have a D mount that I cannot tell where all the wires are connecting because of the focus situation and I cannot tell where the black wires are coming from or going to.  Normally, you would not need a capacitor in the phone body itself, but may have been engineered in there by an inventive person, since they are using a local battery magneto subset on a common battery line and with a common battery D mount.  It could be that there needs to be a capacitor in series with the ringer, if the ringer is connected directly across the line.

I think you should look for a common battery subset.  A Kellogg dial would not be an issue.  The issue you are facing is that you have two completely incompatible parts that cannot work without being rewired. 

Sorry if this sounds negative.
-Bill G

stub

#5
Bill,
       What would be the correct WE sub-set for Kennys 202?  
                                                                                                       stub
Kenneth Stubblefield

Kenny C

#6
could I put a 425B network and a 500 ringer on it. and use that as a subset. could anyone show me how?
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Kenny C

i have a princess subset. i am using that. it has a Kellogg 15-G dial in it and i have wired it to the standards on this and it still will not break dial tone. i need to know what C on the coil is. and any comments will be appreicated.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index/.php?topic=2110.0
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Phonesrfun

Kenny:

A later model "subset" like using the network from a model 500 phone and later is also a troublesome proposition, because the voice circuit is wired on the back side of those networks, as opposed to on the front side, for a lack of a better word.  The princess did not have a subset, since the network was built into the princess base.  Early Princess phones had an E1 ringer, which was not a subset.  It was a ringer only.

I am not saying that using a 425B and later network cannot be done, but the wiring is not really very easy and there are no real diagrams for doing it.  Last year sometime, I did do some work and posted an article in this forum on how to do it, but really, I would suggest getting a subset that was made for the 202.

The subset you would be looking for is a Western Electric 534 or 584 (Sidetone) or a 634 or 684 (Antisidetone) or make your own subset from the base of a junker 302 telephone, which would be antisidetone.  These are the only suggestions I would advise.

You also would need to properly wire the inside of the 202 (D-1 mount) for the Kellogg dial and not have the capacitor inside the phone.

By the way, anything is possible.  It is possible to get the phone you have working with the subset you currently have, and it is possible to make a subset out of the guts of a 500's 425B network, but you would wind up with something nobody else would understand and you would not be able to work on it if anything went wrong either.  The task of trying to talk someone through the process of hooking it up is also way beyond the scope of time I have at this time of year with my job.  Currently I can only get the time to check into the forum about 30 minutes a night before going to bed.  I would also be willing to wire it for you if it were sent to me.  I can pretty much guarantee that I would have success, but I would not be able to tell you how long it would be before I could get to it.  I would not charge a nickel for doing it however.

That is why I am suggesting you go a more traditional route.  Remember that when they came up with the 500, they entirely redesigned the networks and how they are hooked to the speech circuit in a telephone.

By the way, the "C" terminal is one side of the line to the input of the network on a 500 and later network.  On such networks, the green wire comes in to L2 which is just a terminal point, and goes to one set of contacts in the hookswitch.  The other side of the hookswitch contact connects to "C".

L1 is also a terminal that has a hookswitch contact that is connected to "RR".

If you have not purchased Ralph Meyer's book, "Old TIme Telephones!, Design, Histgory, and Restoration, I would suggest you do so.  Also, take an electronics class at a community college, and take a look at the old US Army publication on Colin Chambers website.

Go to oldphoneguy.net and go to free downloads and download and read the TIM11-678 "Fundamentals of Telephony" manual.  This is from the 50's so it covers the perfect timeframe of the state of the art of telephony with respect to the phones we discuss here.

You will be surprised at how much you may find that you grasp and understand about telephones once you begin to understand the insides.



-Bill G

JorgeAmely

Quote from: Phonesrfun on July 09, 2010, 02:46:09 AM
If you have not purchased Ralph Meyer's book, "Old TIme Telephones!, Design, Histgory, and Restoration, I would suggest you do so.  Also, take an electronics class at a community college, and take a look at the old US Army publication on Colin Chambers website.

Kenny: The book mentioned by Bill is excellent. It is now less that $20 at Amazon.
Jorge

Kenny C

i only have one 302 and a 5302 witch i am not going to tear appart to make a subset. Any I dea where I might can get one for cheap.
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

stub

Bill,
      Could Kenny use a 302 base on this phone?     stub
Kenneth Stubblefield

Wallphone

Stub, I was thinking he could use a 302 base and one of Ray Kotke's covers for it. The TCI Library has all that info in the Western file. But Kenny's phone has an AE dial in it, and I'm not sure how those are wired in a 302. I thought that I had a wiring diagram somewhere on that but I can't find it. Does anyone have a schematic showing an AE dial in a WE 302?
Dougpav

Phonesrfun

Quote from: stub1953 on July 12, 2010, 07:18:45 PM
Bill,
      Could Kenny use a 302 base on this phone?     stub

Absolutely, the 302 base would be ideal from a circuitry standpoint.  He will need to wire the inside of the base correctly, as it has been modified by using the capacitor inside the base and will vary from the standard wiring by virtue of the Kellogg dial.

-Bill G

Kenny C

it is dialing out i took the dial out of the 5302 to put it on it i am planning on getting a dial if any one has a #6 pm me your prices
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010