I went a different direction this time! WECo 544 Mahogany Brown

[foots]

  Do you have a 1A2 key system? I'd like to eventually gather the parts and set one up.

[Jester]

So would I, foots.  I've passed on some opportunities for some of the parts because I either didn't have the room to do it at the time or I couldn't get everything at the same time.

Jorge, here are some under the hood shots.  Thanks for reminding me to clean the lens.  These don't have the halo effect.   If you see a simple solution to making this work on my single line, I'd like to know.  I could probably tie up the line for an afternoon & figure it out, but I don't do that anymore.  One of the nice things about being in a like minded group--someone's done it before & doesn't mind sharing.

[paul-f]

<snip>
If you see a simple solution to making this work on my single line, I'd like to know.  I could probably tie up the line for an afternoon & figure it out, but I don't do that anymore. 
<snip>

You can pick tip and ring for the desired line and the ringer connection from the connections diagram here:
  http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/502Division/502-541-402-i1-544-Service.pdf

Insulate and store everything else and bridge the two selected pair across a modular line cord.  (Probably easiest to use a modular surface mount jack with screw terminals to make the connections.)

Longer term, finding a shoebox KSU is much neater, as you will have the lights lit, hold working, etc.

[JorgeAmely]

...
You can pick tip and ring for the desired line and the ringer connection from the connections diagram here:
...

If you have a Panasonic PBX, you could connect all lines to the PBX and at most the phone could place a line on hold, but there won't be support for the lights on the phone (bummer).

Essentially, the phone and switches on the front panel act like a multiplexer, allowing one of many of be routed to the network, so you can dial or talk and listen on that line, one at a time.

I am not too sure, and perhaps some of the switcher oriented people can answer this one, but doesn't the phone use a resistor to place a line on hold?

Thanks for the pictures Stephen. The wiring looks as busy as a modern freeway at lunch time.

[Jester]

I thought the lights were a seperate circuit piggybacked to the line selector and powered by 6-8 vdc.  Using a 2012a for power should work.  As Paul mentioned, though, a KSU would be a neater solution.

[Phonesrfun]

I am not too sure, and perhaps some of the switcher oriented people can answer this one, but doesn't the phone use a resistor to place a line on hold?

Jorge:

Yes, and yes.

In a 1A2 system, there is a 400D (or equivalent) line card for each line.  When a phone selects a line via pushing the button, then the line card is what sends the light signal out to all the phones that have that line appearance on them.  The line card also senses the button being pushed to place a line on hold and the re-pick-up of a call previously placed on hold.  When a call is placed on hold, the line card does place a resistor across the tip and ring so that the central office does not drop the call.

The phone in this thread looks to me like one that was designed for a 1A1 or 1A2 key system.  

There are phones that have a line button and a hold button for each line.  These normally had a maximum of three lines, since a each line would require a line and a hold button and 6 buttons would equal 3 lines.  On these phones, there is no 1A1 or 1A2 "shoebox" .  On this kind of phone, when you press the hold button, it places a resistor across the line and disconnects the phone from that line so you can press anothe button and go on to another call.  In this non 1A1/1A2 system, there are no lights.

So, in both situations. yes, a simple resistor is placed across the line to put a call on hold.

I have a 1A2 system, and it was kind of fun wiring it all up and having the flashing lights, the hold and so forth.  The painful thing about it is running the 25-pair cables.  That, and the fact that I only have one incoming line.

[Phonesrfun]

Phil McCarter (not on this forum) has a 1A2 system for sale on E-Bay.  Complete 3 phones and the "shoebox" 1A2 system:

http://tinyurl.com/2bwp4o6

[Jester]

Thanks, Bill.  I'm watching the one in the pic. right now.  It's currently sitting at $19.99 with no bidders.  I like Phil's, though, because it's ready to go & is Western Electric.

Also, I have a 464 similar to the phone in the next pic.  I'm pretty sure, after checking it against the schematic I found online, that it's set up for use with the 1A.  That should mean it's compatible with this type of shoebox--correct?

[Phonesrfun]

I believe 1A is pretty different from 1A1.  1A2 is compatible with 1A1, but I don't think the 1A1 or 1A2 phones are backward compatible with 1A.  It is my recollection that the earlier key systems had a funky hold system that was greatly improved with 1A1 (all relay) and then further improved using electronics in 1A2.

I believe 464 phones could be wired for either 1A or 1A1, and perhaps the early 564s too.  I think that changing the wiring was not only a matter of the wires but the switch block was also different in the base of the phone.

I am not an expert in the earlier key systems as you can tell, I keep saying "I believe this", and "I believe that".

So, maybe one of our other eggspurts on the forum has better knowledge than I do about 1A, 1A1 and 1A2 compatibility.  If not, I can make a couple of calls tonight and get the skinny.

[Jim Stettler]

The Guy I got the switchboard and brown 544 from has lots of key stuff. Phones, systems ect. I didn't see shoeboxes but I assume he has a few.

I will be in touch with him in the next couple of weeks.
I can probably get the key systems pretty cheap, Parcel shipping on these type items would probably run $20-30 as a guess.

I had a lot of key stuff in a shed for several years. It is now in an underground bunker in NE.

If members are interested in the systems let me know, I don't want to buy and store these items. It will help out the seller if I would buy them, it would help collectors if I helped them get them.

Another thing to consider is that a key powere supply makes a handy talk battery and ringer test supply.  He has lots of of power supplies.

Let me know,
Jim

[AE_Collector]

I believe 1A is pretty different from 1A1.  1A2 is compatible with 1A1, but I donth think the 1A1 or 1A2 phones are backward compatible with 1A.  It is my recollection that the earlier key systems had a funky hold system that was greatly improved with 1A1 (all relay) and then further improved using electronics in 1A2.

I believe 464 phones could be wired for either 1A or 1A1, and perhaps the early 564s too.  I think that changing the wiring was not only a matter of the wires but the switch block was also different in the base of the phone.

I am not an expert in the earlier key systems as you can tell, I keep saying "Ii believe this", and "I believe that".

So, maybe one of our other eggspurts on the forum has better knowledge than I do about 1A, 1A1 and 1A2 compatibility.  If not, I can make a couple of calls tonight and get the skinny.

Bill: That is "basically" my understanding of 1A, 1A1 & 1A2 as well. I never really worked on WECo / NECo Key systems much, only AE. AE had 10A1 & 10A2 which are virtually identical to 1A1 & 1A2. In the "olden Days" we did have some NECo 1A equipment here in British Columbia but while I have a system in the garage, it is waiting for me to retire before it will see any use.

I think that all or at least some WECo 4xx series key phones could be adapted for either 1A or 1A1/1A2 use.

Terry

[Phonesrfun]

I called Colin Chambers who used to teach a 1A2 class.  1A is totally different from 1A1 and 1A2, and sets that are 1A1/2 are not backward compatible to 1A.

From the standpoint of the shoebox, you probably won't want or even be able to find an old 1A system, 1A1's are harder to find than 1A2 and are extremely hard to configure.  1A2's are readily available, and relatively easy to wire and configure, but may involve some punching down of wires to the punchdown block and things are made easier with the 50 pin Amphenol connectors, rather than spade tips.

Your mahogany 564 seems to have spade tips which would require a connecting block with wires running to the punchdown block.

If you have a 464 that is wired and has the switchblock for 1A, you can certainly hook it up as a single line phone, but based on the above information, you would really need a 1A keysystem to make it work, and those typically did not have lights any way.

Probably more information than anyone wanted.

[Jester]

The whole time I was watching this auction, & later when I was cleaning the phone, I kept picturing that wonderful example of a six button set that  John S. owns.  Please, John, don't tell me what you paid for yours--it would be too painful!

Since I brought the subject up, I thought some of the newer members would enjoy seeing John's brown phones.  here is a link to the thread those are pictured in.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1133.msg14390