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Football Fun with Red WE500

Started by Slal, August 21, 2014, 07:47:27 PM

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Slal

Hi Everyone,

Just for grins made offer to seller & to my surprise he accepted.

Now have a crimson (red) "Alabama" sports hotline.  Happy Me.

Black base & ringer dated 4-55.  Screws for triangle shaped feet a bit rusty.  Other components (hs cord, receiver/transmitter, line cord, restraints, housing, etc.) refurbished in 1971. 

When did they convert these to modular & start using galvanized metal?  Based on prices, not sure I understand why the modular ones more valuable.  Seems like it would be the opposite.

Anyway, only thing missing is a *red* 504A plug.

Suggestions where I might find one?  (PhoneCo said they'd check but probably down to white or ivory.)

thx

--Bruce

Kenton K

Does anybody know what years were the 505A and 283B plugs made. And what colors? I've only seen ivory and beige for the 283B and a few colors for the 505A. I also noticed that the early ivory 283B's seem to be made of ivory 302 plastic as oppose to ivory 500 soft plastic, more translucent. Plugs have always confused me.  ???

-Ken

unbeldi

#2
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jsowers

Quote from: Kenton K on August 21, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
I also noticed that the early ivory 283B's seem to be made of ivory 302 plastic as oppose to ivory 500 soft plastic, more translucent. Plugs have always confused me.  ???

I've noticed the plastic on the 283B being different too. I can clean it with denatured alcohol and it doesn't dissolve like soft plastic. I assume it's because there are screw threads in that plastic that would pull loose if it were any softer. It's rare that you see a 283B plug installed correctly, with the wingband strain relief still captured in the right place. I guess either they came loose a lot or people just didn't know how to install them.

My rule of thumb is:

Up to 1965: 283B
1965 and up: 505A

And every phone doesn't need a plug. Most phones I saw growing up were hard-wired in without them, but I'm from AE territory. None of my relatives with Southern Bell had plugs on their phones, though.

Often--more often than not--the 505As don't match the phone on Princess sets. You're lucky if they match. The guys in the field couldn't keep them all in stock, I guess. Especially when they started coming in all the colors.
Jonathan

Kenton K

This is exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you all. One can only go through so many BSPs at a time.

Thanks-Ken

unbeldi

#5
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poplar1

*1940: C63.201 Issue 3, 8-26-40. Paragraph 3.06 Note 4:
                  Use 403B and 404B jacks and 283B type
                  plugs for all new installations requiring two, three or
                  four contacts. A small stock of three contact jacks
                  and plugs is being manufactured for maintainance re-
                  placements and additions only.


*1940:  "Existing stocks of black finished plugs and jacks may be used."
C63.201, Issue 3, 8-26-40


*1942: Because of Wartime Restrictions, "the manufacture of  station plugs and jacks in colors other than ivory and brown has been discontinued." This included 273A-6, 274A-6, 283B-6 (old brass) plugs, and 403B-6, 403B-14 (brush brass) jacks.
WR-C63.01, Issue 1, 8-5-42

*1969:  Red (-53) and Ivory (-50) 505A plugs are shown in Section 461-630-105 Issue 2. (They were not shown in Issue 1, 2/67.) Red and Ivory were added to the Princess colors in 1967. There is some evidence that red and ivory desk phones had been manufacture discontinued during certain years; in any case, red and ivory 283Bs are not listed in the 1969 table .

*1974: 461-630-100, Issue 8, July, 1974, Table C lists all colors from the 1969 list for 505As.

*1976: 461-630-100, Issue 9, March, 1976 shows only Ivory (-50) and Light Olive Gray (-49) 505A plugs. Although most phones were full modular by then, even the hardwired sets used clear or satin silver mounting cords.

[In 1974, even in all-modular areas of Atlanta,  4-prong plugs and jacks were still being installed wherever the customer wanted to move the phones around! 549A jacks are not M.D. (manufacture discontinued) in 1976, but are M.D. in the 1983 Issue 12.]

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Slal

Quote from: jsowers on August 21, 2014, 10:20:13 PM
And every phone doesn't need a plug. Most phones I saw growing up were hard-wired in without them, but I'm from AE territory. None of my relatives with Southern Bell had plugs on their phones, though.

'Proper' term besides junction box for hard-wiring phones?

My "sports TV room" doesn't have outlet & will have to carry existing phone line (that's stapled to baseboard) into it.  A small box on the baseboard might be better than having to perf drywall, install a modular jack, buy an adapter for 4 prong plug, etc. 

Unbeldi, thanks for catching my typo. ; )

And Poplar1, *very* reassuring about red plugs being 'legit.'  Had me worried about PhoneCo.  (Rep claimed that red plugs are rare, but they'd check and send one with bell on it if happen to have.)   

Anyway, while deciding how I want to wire 'sports room' phone needs a good cleaning.

Feet look like rubber that's hardened and might be brittle over the years.  Part of the base, & nuts rusty & will *not* budge without risking too much torque. 

"Liquid Wrench" or similar product safe for loosening?  Since don't know what feet are made of will leave well enough alone until more info.

Thanks for replies.  Info on plugs cut, pasted & another section added to 3-ring binder. ; )

--Bruce

unbeldi

#8
These feet are made of Neoprene, which was very popular as a rubber replacement. When new it has better characteristics than rubber, but unfortunately, it decomposes slowly under certain conditions (not exactly known) and produces hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid in the process when moisture is present.  Over time, this seems to cause this creeping corrosion around the feet.


Slal

Thanks.

Been a long time since college chemistry.  A solvent such as synthetic kerosene or "liquid nails" safe for neoprene?

Phosphoric acid easily remove iron oxide but goes without saying-- have to remove feet first.

Is a 'connection block' what I need to look for to splice cable & hardwire phone to baseboard?

thx

--Bruce

unbeldi

Quote from: Slal on August 22, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
Thanks.

Been a long time since college chemistry.  A solvent such as synthetic kerosene or "liquid nails" safe for neoprene?

Phosphoric acid easily remove iron oxide but goes without saying-- have to remove feet first.

Is a 'connection block' what I need to look for to splice cable & hardwire phone to baseboard?

thx

--Bruce

Neoprene degrades with a lot of household cleaners even, I don't think kerosine is safe, but not sure. Liquid nails? isn't that a glue?  Are the feet actually screwed on? Usually they were riveted.  Why not try WD-40 very sparingly?  I don't think it will hurt, and should help also with the corrosion.

Yes, a 42A connecting block would be alright.  Suttle also used to make 283B and 505A plugs, btw. I have come across quite a few of them on phones.

poplar1

So far, we have determined the following:

1. Western Electric made 283-type plugs from about 1931 until no later than 2/69. They made 505A plugs from c. 1965 until sometime after 3/76 but before 6/83.

2. Plugs that matched the phone color, rather than the jack or inside wiring, appeared sometime between 1962 and 1967.

3. So far, no red 283B plugs have been reported. Red 505A plugs were made starting sometime between 2/67 and 2/69.

4. Colors for plugs, except ivory and light olive gray, were discontinued by 3/76. This may have coincided with the standardization of clear and silver satin as the only colors for mounting cords, whether hard-wired or modular. (Ivory and lt. olive gray were the standard colors for inside wiring.)

So red 505A plugs were made for a maximum of 9 years (>2/67-- <3/76), and possibly less.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Slal

Almost bid on a red trim-line phone just to get the matching plug, but figured that was getting a little carried away.  Winner got both for $16 which is less than some are advertising the just the white plugs for.  He or she got a nice red plug + a free phone.

Anyway, copy of time-line printed out.  PhoneCo ended up sending a white WE plug so guess they're out of red.

Am I mistaken or 9 years wouldn't make them rare-- just uncommon?

As for feet, they seem to be screwed into circular nuts, so might just live with the rust.  (Soaked up a drop of machine oil last night, but no dice.)  Won't budge & don't want to break prongs off feet, or just have nut spinning around frozen again.

Attaching photo from the topside if that helps any.  Interesting that only the ones in front are rusty.  Rear feet replaced, something got spilled on front ones?  Will never know...

thx

--Bruce

PS:  Thanks for link   

WesternElectricBen

The plastic feet just seem to rust, when the newer ones were added, they probably sanded down the metal and painted it.

Ben

Dennis Markham

Those foot-pads on your phone appear to be fastened with non-standard fasteners for a model 500.  I have never encountered a Western Electric Model 500 phone with foot-pads that were not riveted onto the base.  Perhaps the original rivets were removed by someone and 302 type fasteners were used as a replacements since it is difficult to put on riveted fasteners.  We do have a forum member that does replacements using rivets that are nearly identical if not identical to the originals.

The theory is that the out-gassing of the Neoprene pads over the years causes moisture, thus rust.