Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Auction Talk => ebaY Quirks, Complaints and Chatter => Topic started by: Phonesrfun on March 17, 2011, 01:36:48 PM

Title: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Phonesrfun on March 17, 2011, 01:36:48 PM
Ladies and gentlemen:

I think we need to look long and hard at how we as a group discuss and put down items that are not, let's say, totally honest on e-Bay or other things like Craig's List.  Some sellers are more than happy to receive correcting information, and many are not.

Many of us, myself included want the community of sellers out there to not defraud thier customers, and we want to passionately put that message out.  I don't disagree with contacting a seller individually with correcting information.  It is hard, however, to get involved with e-Bay directly if we have not been the one harmed by having bought such an item.

My only point here is that many, many sellers do some level of research, even if they come to the wrong conclusions about what they are selling.  Posts on this board show up in Google and Bing searches by topic.  We have seen on some occasions e-Bay sellers come by here to see what we on the Rotary Phone forum may have to say about a particular style or model of phone, only to find out that we have been publicly trashing their very auction.  Things can get pretty nasty when that happens.  I hope we don't want to be known collectively as a vigilante group.

Obviously, I am only one voice on this forum, and many of you will probably wholeheartedly disagree with what I have just said, and I am cool with that.  I have even participated in pointing out "discrepencies" in some recent auction discussions, but I am feeling a little guilty for having done so.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Tom B on March 17, 2011, 02:12:08 PM
In full agreement with your sentiments Bill
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Doug Rose on March 17, 2011, 02:16:38 PM
I Second that emotion....Doug
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Dennis Markham on March 17, 2011, 02:24:02 PM
Great post, Bill.  Thank you for it.  We do want to be careful when discussing various items so that our comments are not libelous.  As someone said in a different topic, I think most sellers mean well and do the best with what knowledge they have or have gained in brief research prior to their listing.  Then again others may not be so honest.  I don't think there is any problem with pointing out discrepancies that are factual but it should be done tactfully.  And as Bill said, many sellers are happy to receive constructive criticism.  
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: paul-f on March 17, 2011, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on March 17, 2011, 01:36:48 PM
I hope we don't want to be known collectively as a vigilante group.

???  I thought Dennis deputized us all when we signed on with this outfit.   ;)
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Sargeguy on March 17, 2011, 08:43:46 PM
I always make a point to tell sellers that there telephones are fakes.  So far none of them have complained and all except one have changed the listing.  I don't think that the average seller wants to defraud anyone and get saddled with charge-backs and the like.  I know that a few members of the forum are currently or recently looking for candlesticks on eBay so I give examples of what not to bid on when I see them.  Although I am no expert on candlesticks, I am getting fairly good at spotting fakes.   I will not post links to the really good stuff I am bidding on.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Ed D on March 19, 2011, 11:38:27 AM
I am nowhere near the level of knowledge that you guys have about phones, and how to spot fakes.  And I only buy from ebay, not sell.  I think it is great that some of you take the time to contact the seller and explain in a calm manner why/how you can tell the phone is a fake just by looking at the photos, or reading the description.  Kudos to you!

And kudos to the sellers who listen to you, and then fix their auctions.

One thought that I have about why some may not change their auction after receiving the "bad news" is that the seller simply does not trust the word of someone they do not know.  Face it, I could tell the seller their phone is a modern-made reproduction that basically looks almost exactly like the real thing, or is a frankenphone that has been cobbled together at some point, and fools most people.

I could also be feeding the seller a big lie in hopes that he updates the auction to say the phone is a fake, thus eliminating most or all competition for that auction so I get a sweet deal.

Anyway, just my $0.018999 (allowing for cost of living adjustments, of course)   ;D
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: GG on March 20, 2011, 08:46:51 AM


I agree we should at first be gentle about it. 

Here's the latest example: item no. 220756709975.  Seller thinks they have a D1 / 202.  In reality it's made by Telcer (Italy) and is a darn good replica of the Italian version of the AE 1A Monophone.  You can still buy that model new, for about $130 plus shipping from Italy.  Seller wants $250 for it in fair condition. 

What's going on here is, someone finds an object at a flea market or yard sale, and after a bit of quick research, thinks they have just found something really valuable (and acquired it on the cheap), and get emotionally invested in the idea that it's real. 

So now along comes one of us and pops their bubble: it really is only worth the $10 they paid for it at the flea market. 

It's natural for people to resist facts that contradict their emotional desires.  In this case the desire for not only the profit on the sale but for the personal validation of having found a high-value item.  Thus the value of being gentle when we first inform them.   "Hi, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but..."

However, protecting the public from fakes is more important than protecting sellers' illusions about themselves.  So if they don't respond to the "nice" approach, it's perfectly legit to threaten to report them to Ebay, and to follow through on that threat.

The ones who are most likely engaged in deliberate fraud may also play dumb, but sometimes they reveal themselves for example by writing back and cussing you out.  In that case turn 'em in with no delay and no Mr. Nice Guy about it. 
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: bingster on March 20, 2011, 07:45:21 PM
The seller wrote this:

"The designation "202" actually referred to the electrical configuration of these sets and the oval-base shape was called a D1. "

I guarantee that information came from this forum.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: GG on March 20, 2011, 08:04:09 PM


Bingster, I agree: they may have come here to do their research, and either jumped to a conclusion for emotional reasons, or decided to lift the language from here to help mislead the public.

OK, who's going to be nice about this and write to the seller?

Here's where these can be bought new:

http://www.telephoneteca.com/tempusphones.htm

Someone should pass that link along to the seller. 

The absolute give-away on this is the shape of the dial fingerstop, which is unique to Telcer's replicas. 

Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on November 11, 2012, 02:21:51 PM
Ray K (Kleenax) recently commented here that he thought the word RARE was a little overused in the phone collecting community. That got me thinking that there are too many RARE phones on ebaY and maybe some of the better examples would be fun to point out. Thus, we now have the "Not so "RARE Phones" as found on ebaY" thread to add your favorite examples for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Here is one I just stumbled upon. Nothing very rare about a black (maybe it is Espresso Brown, still not rare) AE 80E but throw an Esso Gasoline Station picture under the clear facemat of the 80E and there you have it, an instant RARE and never seen before collectible telephone set!

Do you American's have Esso Gas down there? Exxon, Esso, Standard Oil...all the same thing but Esso has been the brand in Canada for the last 40 or more years.

Terry

""RARE"" 1976 GTE VINTAGE ESSO GASOLINE TELEPHONE { FREE SHIPPING }
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 11, 2012, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: AE_collector on November 11, 2012, 02:21:51 PM
""RARE"" 1976 GTE VINTAGE ESSO GASOLINE TELEPHONE { FREE SHIPPING }

You Canadians were really behind the times.  That Esso picture looks like 1950s USA, not 1976 ;D

Larry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on November 11, 2012, 03:58:25 PM
It must have been AE Canada that was behind the times but what else is new....

We had some "better" custom faceplates and even custom dial cards (mainly on AE phones that had the plastic FW with the card put in from the back) in some of our CO's back when you could get away with such things.... :)

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on November 11, 2012, 04:08:08 PM
Most US Esso stations changed to Exxon in 1972.

Before the federal broke up AT&T, they broke up Standard Oil (1911). In some states starting in 1941 they used the name "Esso" (SO=Standard Oil or ESSO=Eastern States Standard Oil).
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on November 11, 2012, 04:14:16 PM
1972...that would be just about the same time that I recall Sandard Oil stations around Vancouver getting a facelift and new signs saying Esso. I remember thinking "what the $@#& does that say?"

I filled up my Telus Truck at an Esso a couple of weeks ago and did a double take when I noticed that the new pump said Exxon on it. Checked all the others and they said Esso. One slipped through with the wrong branding.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on November 11, 2012, 04:59:54 PM
I think they renamed from Esso to Exxon cos I think in Japanese (or whichever eastern place they were expanding into), Esso means something rude... :D

We have Esso stations here, for now... :D

As for the word "Rare" being used so much on ebay, yeah, it happens with the most common items, the amount of the very common and very much not rare ivory coloured GPO 746 phones I've seen with "RARE!!!" attached to the title is just ridiculous, the sheer volume of that colour on the bay shows they're telling porkies to get more bids in... ::)
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Babybearjs on November 16, 2012, 08:27:27 PM
speaking of Not so Rare...... whats up with these "Rare" 302's.... the place is floooded with them....and thats not rare....
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on November 16, 2012, 08:40:28 PM
Yeah just because it is old it isn't neccesarily rare.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on November 16, 2012, 09:38:11 PM
I think some people think it's rare because to them, it's the only one within three square meters, and thus is absolutely priceless and must be worth loads of money... :D

Then they find nobody buys it at their price, or if they start off low, it sells low, leaving them disappointed and probably out-of-pocket as they themselves may have paid more than it's worth for the item... :D

Occasionally, I like to probe some of the "rare" items, usually asking a question which subversively contains a statement of actual age, rarity and value, which most sellers tend to miss, haven't done it in a while though, there's only so many time that you can laugh at silly answers... :P
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 16, 2012, 09:43:45 PM
growing up in Oregon, we had Enco stations which became Exxon in the 60's as I remember.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on November 16, 2012, 09:55:19 PM
By the way. someone put an opening bid of $39.99 on the Esso AE80E and what a surprise, they now own it. I'll stick with my Automatic Electric branded AE80E's that are worth the same as always, $10 on a good day or less if I were selling one!

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 16, 2012, 10:01:45 PM
So, take an old ad from an old 1950's magazine ad and glue it behind a semi-clear AE80E faceplate and put it up on e-Bay as RARE.  Maybe you'll get $15. :)
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: old_stuff_hound on November 17, 2012, 09:38:11 AM
Quote from: twocvbloke on November 16, 2012, 09:38:11 PM
I think some people think it's rare because to them, it's the only one within three square meters, and thus is absolutely priceless and must be worth loads of money... :D

"But it must be rare -- it's the only one in the whole entire house!"
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: WesternElectricBen on January 05, 2013, 04:39:09 PM
Look at my post, about the 1964 500 moduler phone. Its over 100 dollars, how is it rare?? This really annoys me.
Ben
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on April 13, 2013, 11:22:40 AM
Quote from: AE_Collector on November 16, 2012, 09:55:19 PM
By the way. someone put an opening bid of $39.99 on the Esso AE80E and what a surprise, they now own it. I'll stick with my Automatic Electric branded AE80E's that are worth the same as always, $10 on a good day or less if I were selling one!

Terry

Big surprise that the "Super Rare Esso Phone" doesn't appear to have "really" sold for $39.99 but has remained for sale for months and months now. It is now down to $15 from $39.99 and still looking for a new home.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121093354069

Any other "Not So Rare Phones on ebaY currently"? This is the place to post them.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on April 16, 2013, 10:28:27 PM
Here's a fake that is almost always listed as a genuine Western Electric "102.".

It resembles a Western Electric round base B1B ("102"). Note that there are no markings on the back: there should be "B1" and also something like:

WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PAT IN USA SEPT 16 24 PATS APPLIED FOR

Also, the cradle looks crude and the phone is made of a thick bronze-like material rather than steel.

This model is sold by phoneco with a modular, plastic handset. The one listed below actually has an original WE handset and a WE 1950s-1960s 6A dial.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390524201017

"Vintage Antique Brass ROTARY DIAL MODEL 102 TELEPHONE Bakelite Modernized"




Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on April 16, 2013, 10:36:37 PM
Here's one that turns up more often. It has a repro WE candlestick base, new cords, and an old handset. The cradle is a repro resembling the cradles on the Automatic Electric 1A Monophone.  

On the original 1As, the cradles are either pot metal or Bakelite. The bases are usually Bakelite.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370580865336
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on April 16, 2013, 11:04:43 PM
For comic relief, here is the original Western Electric B1B:

Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on April 16, 2013, 11:13:16 PM
Original Automatic Electric 1A Monophone


http://www.ebay.com/itm/140909002873


Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: rdelius on April 17, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
The fake brass set used a cradle off a ATEA   (AE) belgium set .The bases are reproduction  WE candlestick bases. That handset is off a set from Norway. AE types 41 and 38 also were used on these repro sets. Phoneco used larger AE dials and cut them down to fit but reused the newer finger stops that were held on with one screw.Some were built with older AE dials such as types 51a or 24.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on May 04, 2013, 07:38:30 PM
"Vintage Antique Rotary Payphone By Automatic Electric. Early 19th Century Model"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151039914110

Found in his 97 year old grandfather's attic along with other things the grandfather has collected for nearly a century.

Actually, it's a 1980s fake---not a pay phone and nothing to do with Automatic Electric other than the dial and ringer from an AE 80.

And only $1,200!

Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on May 04, 2013, 09:50:33 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on May 04, 2013, 07:38:30 PM
"Early 19th Century Model"

Phones don't get much older than this. That's a good 50 years prior to the invention of the phone!

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MagicMo on May 04, 2013, 10:08:37 PM
What about this clear phone? I don't know much about phones but I can tell something is not right about this. $150 buy it now.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Jim Stettler on May 05, 2013, 10:41:49 PM
That Is an ITT phone   or an aftermarket housing on a 500 base. These housings in Blue and pink are unmarked  and seem to be  ITT  housings.


Value  (to me) maybe $20-30
JMO Jim
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on May 06, 2013, 02:50:06 AM
ooh, I quite like that blue phone, but I don't like the price...  :D
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on May 06, 2013, 06:42:52 PM
Update from seller on the "19th century" pay phone:

"I took what you said to heart and I can't believe that's its a reproduction. Thanks for the advice, I'm actually having a BBQ tomorrow and now I at least have some firewood


- huntpicksell"
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on May 22, 2013, 10:18:28 PM
Here's another new pay phone from phoneco (phonecoinc.com) being sold as original:

"VINTAGE RARE RED PUBLIC CION TELEPHONE FROM THE 50"S"

http://cgi.ebay.com/item/251278382396

This is the seller's reply to a question:

"YES  RARE, YES 50'S !!! You have no idea what you are talking about. How can you comment on something that is not in your possession and have never seen. NOR KNOW WHERE I PURCHASED IT FROM. PLEASE DO NOT BID ON ANY OF MY ITEMS OR LOOK AT MY SITE ANY MORE,!!!"

This is what I thought it was: (from phonecoinc.com)

The PAYCO and the PAY2C are primarily reproduction parts. But don't let this fool you. These are not cheap light weight plastic reproduction.The high quality reproduction parts are made from the same materials as the originals. These phones are built to the same exacting standards as the originals. They are carefully hand assembled and tested by our expert technicians. You can expect the same durability and reliability that the phones companies got from the phones they owned. You will have 30 days to return the phone no questions asked and the phone comes with a one year warranty.
PAYCO·································$309.00

The first picture is at phoneco's website. The second one is the "Rare 50s" one on Ebay. You decide!

(BTW, it appears phoneco finally changed the instruction card from 1890s New England Tel. to Independent)







Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on June 23, 2013, 01:41:49 PM
"RARE Vintage Antique Candle Stick Phone-Brass-Rotary Dial"
[NOT!]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151065144970

Q: "Rare? You're kidding, right? This is a 1970s reproduction, probably made
overseas."

A: "We always appreciate receiving comments, advice, etc from our customers. We
however must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this item, It has a
bakelite speaker and hearing column and we have been officially advised this
item dates back to the 1940's. Thank you for your comments"

Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: LarryInMichigan on June 23, 2013, 02:33:57 PM
I feel bad for whoever bid $136.99 for an item worth at most $30.  Don't let this happen to you!

Larry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 23, 2013, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on June 23, 2013, 02:33:57 PMI feel bad for whoever bid $136.99 for an item worth at most $30.

So, Larry, if the auction has a "Returns: 14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping" clause, could the buyer just say to the seller before paying "don't ship" and just not pay? Would that cause a problem on eBay for the buyer? Just asking - that wasn't my bid.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on June 23, 2013, 03:16:52 PM
The bidder has a feedback of 3, so he may not know it's a fake.

I'd still like to know who "officially advised" the seller that it "dates back to the 1940s."
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 23, 2013, 03:27:30 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on June 23, 2013, 03:16:52 PMThe bidder has a feedback of 3, so he may not know it's a fake.

I saw that. If the bidder is a member of the forum, maybe he/she will get the hint.

Quote from: poplar1 on June 23, 2013, 03:16:52 PMI'd still like to know who "officially advised" the seller that it "dates back to the 1940s."

That would be interesting but doubt the seller will say who, if anybody at all.

And what's the rule on questions? Is it up to the seller to show or not show questions? That listing says no questions were asked and you obviously asked a question.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: LarryInMichigan on June 23, 2013, 05:38:03 PM
It would certainly be advisable for the buyer to return the phone.  If the phone clearly shows a date of 1971 on the bottom, they would have a good claim that the item was not as advertised.  If the bidder is reading this, I would suggest retracting the bid.

I don't think there is any reason here to believe that the seller is trying to mislead.  Few people know anything about these things.


Larry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 23, 2013, 06:43:42 PM
Didn't know for sure about this until I read the last line of the seller's description, and noticed the Phillips head screws on both sides of the dial "branch."

Listed as "VERY RARE Antique Brass Art Nouveau Hollywood Style Ornate Telephone early 1900" at a BIN price of $750.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171064506746

Seller says: "Very Rare Antique Brass Art Nouveau 'Hollywood Style' Ornate Telephone, early 1900's. This is a really large stunning model. Made of solid brass stealth, beautiful ornate decorated. The jug dial is perfectly finished with a very nice picture. Marked with Toshiba."
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: LarryInMichigan on June 23, 2013, 06:49:55 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on June 23, 2013, 06:43:42 PM
Didn't know for sure about this until I read the last line of the seller's description, and noticed the Phillips head screws on both sides of the dial "branch."

Listed as "VERY RARE Antique Brass Art Nouveau Hollywood Style Ornate Telephone early 1900" at a BIN price of $750.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171064506746

Seller says: "Very Rare Antique Brass Art Nouveau 'Hollywood Style' Ornate Telephone, early 1900's. This is a really large stunning model. Made of solid brass stealth, beautiful ornate decorated. The jug dial is perfectly finished with a very nice picture. Marked with Toshiba."


Wow, only $750!  I had better buy it before someone beats me to it ;D 

"Stunning" is not quite the word I would use to describe it.  Replacing the "tun" with "icke" would yield a more accurate description :D.

Larry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on June 23, 2013, 07:11:14 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on June 23, 2013, 05:38:03 PM
It would certainly be advisable for the buyer to return the phone.  If the phone clearly shows a date of 1971 on the bottom, they would have a good claim that the item was not as advertised.  If the bidder is reading this, I would suggest retracting the bid.

I don't think there is any reason here to believe that the seller is trying to mislead.  Few people know anything about these things.

Larry, I agree that maybe the seller didn't know any better---except for the fact that they were told by at least one person that their description was wrong. But, after all, they were "officially advised" and the "hearing column" is Bakelite!
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: paul-f on June 24, 2013, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: TelePlay on June 23, 2013, 06:43:42 PM
Didn't know for sure about this until I read the last line of the seller's description, and noticed the Phillips head screws on both sides of the dial "branch."

Listed as "VERY RARE Antique Brass Art Nouveau Hollywood Style Ornate Telephone early 1900" at a BIN price of $750.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171064506746

Seller says: "Very Rare Antique Brass Art Nouveau 'Hollywood Style' Ornate Telephone, early 1900's. This is a really large stunning model. Made of solid brass stealth, beautiful ornate decorated. The jug dial is perfectly finished with a very nice picture. Marked with Toshiba."


I received a cordial email from the seller, who has since opened the phone and found a 1961 date.  The listing has been changed accordingly.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 24, 2013, 07:26:54 PM
Quote from: paul-f on June 24, 2013, 11:00:45 AMI received a cordial email from the seller, who has since opened the phone and found a 1961 date.  The listing has been changed accordingly.

One problem fixed but the other one, the price, remains unchanged.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 24, 2013, 07:49:13 PM
Seller says: "Western Electric 302 phone made in Holland." Real or fake?

Seller description: "This a Antique Art Deco Western Electric 302 model Phone in great condition the dail piece is broken off from 9,8,0, as u see in the picture but still works. You are buying as is."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261235919406

Broken finger wheel and still in great condition? Opening bid asked is $25 plus $32.75 shipping.

Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 27, 2013, 07:38:23 PM
On a good request, I just merged the "Not So RARE phones as found on eBay" thread with the "Fake items on e-Bay and other such fakery" thread and combined the headings into the now "Not so "RARE" phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay" thread.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on June 27, 2013, 08:47:13 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on June 23, 2013, 02:33:57 PM
I feel bad for whoever bid $136.99 for an item worth at most $30.  Don't let this happen to you!

Well, as expected, it ended with one bid from one bidder, who bought that stick for $136.99. An expensive lesson.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Babybearjs on June 27, 2013, 11:00:27 PM
Bill, I hear and understand! some of the stuff on ebay is really misleading. but, here is some you might know about.... enclosed is a picture of a NE 302 with a F3 handset... could you help to I.D. it for me. I've never seen anything like this...  what was it originally used for?   I just won the item for $9.99 and am excited to see whats inside.....  John
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: WesternElectricBen on June 27, 2013, 11:51:46 PM
If its like mine, and you read my post under yours on the June 2013 find of the month that might help.

Ben
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on August 13, 2013, 02:58:07 PM
I laughed at this eBay listing for a 'Rare' 1947 Western Electric 500. The seller even says he/she knows that the 500 was first built in 1949, and this one was built in '47 :-\

. . . /itm/Quite-Rare-Vintage-1947-Western-Electric-500-Rotary-Phone-Braided-Cord-GC-NR-/330988148707

Edit - shortened URL to http://www.ebay.com/itm/330988148707

Plus, it's obviously a 5302.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Mr. Bones on August 13, 2013, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on August 13, 2013, 02:58:07 PM
Plus, it's obviously a 5302.

     Kinda a 5302... Visually apparent are the Extensicord, AE handset, and lack of a volume adjusting lever, protruding through the baseplate...I have seen examples minus the volume lever, but never before the AE parts...Fascinating...

     Most likely refurbished in the field, or by an independent telco refurb center, would be my guess.

     It seems to me to be of northern American ancestry, if I may venture a guess....

Best regards!
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on August 13, 2013, 05:57:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bones on August 13, 2013, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on August 13, 2013, 02:58:07 PM
Plus, it's obviously a 5302.

     Kinda a 5302... Visually apparent are the Extensicord, AE handset, and lack of a volume adjusting lever, protruding through the baseplate...I have seen examples minus the volume lever, but never before the AE parts...Fascinating...

     Most likely refurbished in the field, or by an independent telco refurb center, would be my guess.

     It seems to me to be of northern American ancestry, if I may venture a guess....

Best regards!

Probably converted from a 302 to a 5302 by a refurbisher: note that there are no Bell System markings and no triangular replacement feet. However, no refurbisher would have connected the handset to L1, R and K. Verdict: Frankenphone--AE handset and extensicord added by a dealer.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: baldopeacock on August 13, 2013, 08:08:11 PM
Well, the AE Extensicord looks pretty good, if you need one.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Russ Kirk on August 14, 2013, 11:42:47 AM
Quote from: baldopeacock on August 13, 2013, 08:08:11 PM
Well, the AE Extensicord looks pretty good, if you need one.

Yes,  I agree, the item may be good for parts,  if you can get it cheap.. the auction is starting out at $20
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE40FAN on August 14, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
I would buy it for that price just for the extensicord alone.  Just not sure if it had been cut or altered somewhere to fit that phone....
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: liteamorn on August 14, 2013, 03:18:02 PM
I was eyeing the Extensicord myself :)
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: wds on August 14, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
I'm in on the cord also.  Shall we draw straws to see who is going to bid so we don't all end up bidding against each other?
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: wds on August 15, 2013, 02:25:55 PM
I guess I drew the short straw and didn't know it!  I'll let you know about the cord when the phone arrives.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on August 18, 2013, 11:12:34 PM
Here's another one to straighten out. The seller listed it as a "BRASS HANDSET HEAD ANTIQUE VINTAGE WESTERN ELECTRIC Candlestick Telephone PHONE"  with a BIN price of $550 and described it as "Connect yourself with the past with this amazing antique Candlestick phone from Western Electric. A great piece of history and a remarkable condition for the age display piece. This amazing piece has been checked out by my vintage electronics repair specialist, and while he did not have a phone jack to test all its working abilities did verify both transducers are fine. I hooked up a jack on it and after taking it home I took it to a neighbors to verify operation I found that the ringer box did ring and I was able to hear the other person on the phone... I was not able to verify that they could hear me; however, I may have hooked up the jack on the wrong terminals.  At any rate this looks like it was updated at one time as the capacitor in the handset looks newer. The cord is in great shape as well for the age. WINNING BIDDER WILL RECEIVE EVERYTHING PICTURED. PLEASE SEE PICTURES FOR CONDITION."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281153662215

Some of it is WE but some of it is not. I'm sure our members can help the seller, who put a lot into listing this stick, as well as any potential buyer know what this phone really is. So, what do we have here?
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on August 19, 2013, 01:41:05 AM
His "BRASS HANDSET HEAD ANTIQUE VINTAGE WESTERN ELECTRIC Candlestick Telephone PHONE"  or whatever the heck it is looks just like my GPO 150 Candlestick phone!

This amazing piece has been checked out by my vintage electronics repair specialist, and while he did not have a phone jack to test all its working abilities did verify both transducers are fine.

You sort of have to feel bad for his vintage electronics repair specialist since he doesn't have a jack to thouroughly test everything out. I guess he just connected it to his oscilloscope for awhile, then tested it thoroughly with his VOM and finally ran an insulation breakdown test on it before giving it his stamp of approval. Then he headed off to his next job patching pot holes in the road conveniently located just a couple of blocks away.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on August 19, 2013, 08:02:26 AM
 ;)

The WE parts seem to me to be the subset sans cover and maybe the receiver element, based on what seems to be the letters WE on the back side bottom of the receiver element, just below and to the left of the green capacitor?
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: wds on August 19, 2013, 06:46:58 PM
With the exception of the receiver element, it looks like a nice GPO candlestick- although the price is about $450 too high.

Got the phone with the extensicord, and it's in real nice condition.  The cord seems to be made for that style handset, and since I don't have any phones that take that handset it's going on Ebay.  I can make use of the other parts, so I'm still on the hunt for a good cheap extensicord for my old style handset.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on August 19, 2013, 08:00:03 PM
So it is a 3 conductor cord, right? On the handset end does it have a short conductor for the transmitter, a long conductor to go up to the receiver and the third conductor is long but also has a spade at the transmitter end? IE, two spades on the common conductor at the handset end.

That is how the early cords were on the early type 81 handsets which this one looks to be. Well, except that they were usually vinyl cords with green, red & yellow conductors. This must have been used as the first retractile handset cord on AE 80, 90 etc when they still normally had straight handset cords. I haven't seen an Extensicord set up for the type 81 handset before.

You looked closely to confirm that the two receiver leads aren't short jumpers to to the handset cord terminated on screw terminals under the transmitter cap?

What do you want for it, with or without the handset?

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: wds on August 19, 2013, 08:07:32 PM
I'll try to describe it - two short leads for the transmitter side.  One of the short leads splits and has a long lead to go to the receiver.  Then a 3rd long lead for the transmitter.  Very nice cord - wish I could make it work on the AE40 handset without modifying the cord.  
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on August 20, 2013, 01:05:49 AM
So they crimped two conductors into the one spade so that it could continue to the receiver or does it actually "Y" into two leads, a short and a long (that sounds like someone's Magneto party line code) one? The slightly newer cords had a special in-line spade crimped onto the green conductor which travelled through the spade and continued on to it's next stop at the receiver.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: wds on August 20, 2013, 06:59:37 AM
Here's a picture of the cord with the short lead attached to the transmitter and the long lead going up to the receiver.  
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on August 20, 2013, 01:47:19 PM
Yes that is exactly the way they did the vinyl 3 conductor cords for the new type 81 handset were arranged where the leads could now be fed through the handle to the receiver. I had never seen an Extensicord set up for a type 81 handset before.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: JorgeAmely on August 20, 2013, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: wds on August 19, 2013, 06:46:58 PM
... snip ... I'm still on the hunt for a good cheap extensicord for my old style handset.

Try Steve, the dial guy from AZ (http://www.navysalvage.com/).
I bought a few from him years ago.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on August 20, 2013, 05:15:00 PM
Yes Steve used to have them for $30 to $35 NIB. Then he was out, then he found some more but that was awhile ago. Someone usually has one on ebaY for something like $85! Probably got them from Steve.

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on September 22, 2013, 09:55:50 AM
From the category of "Not knowing a telephone dial from a handset" comes this offering on eBay.

"-> ANTIQUE BRASS TELEPHONE BELL RINGER GREAT SOUND NICE PATINA <-" (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-BRASS-TELEPHONE-BELL-RINGER-GREAT-SOUND-NICE-PATINA-/400577098583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d44417357#ht_4572wt_1091)


Actually, I would jump at this if it was all there. It's missing the square shaft, plate and butterfly knob that would be on the other side of the door to make this a very nice, vintage manual door bell. But it doesn't so I won't. There is nothing "telephone" about this item.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on September 22, 2013, 02:02:01 PM
Yep, definitely a doorbell, I once found one in a theatre's props and it took a while to figure it out, but on the one I found,  you turned the gong to wind it up, and a rod on the back of the button that would have been on the door pressed the release thing and it rang, quite clever fot an era when electric bells were uncommon.... :D
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: rdelius on September 22, 2013, 04:37:10 PM
Phoneco used to sell similar door bells to mount into wooden telephones to simulate a magnito. A crank was kluged in place of the turn key
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on September 23, 2013, 08:26:16 PM
Seller just listed this as a "Westrn Electric Mushroom Rotary Telephone 500 C/D" in a 7 day auction but I don't see the light. Probably an honest mistake by someone who doesn't sell a lot of phones.

On closer inspection, seems to be a mid 50's phone refurbed in '69 and left to rust somewhere after that. And, what's up with the network? Has the black cap but looks like a label was pasted on the side. Wasn't it twocvbloke who once thought about getting a rusted phone like this to restore?

It's a bit high with an asked starting bid of $195.00 but it comes with FREE SHIPPING.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/23106120476
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on September 24, 2013, 07:33:43 AM
Yep, there's not mushroom in that phone... :D
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: DavePEI on September 24, 2013, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: twocvbloke on September 24, 2013, 07:33:43 AM
Yep, there's not mushroom in that phone... :D
Its ratty enough that it likely could grow mushrooms! I notice he has removed it today...He must have realized his error. Definitely just a 500 c/d made ca. 1955 and refurbed in '69.

Dave
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: poplar1 on September 24, 2013, 11:25:20 AM
Paper labels were common on the networks in 500s from that time frame...Now, is there a list somewhere showing the exact dates this is true?
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on October 17, 2013, 07:18:57 PM
Just had to put this somewhere for posterity  ::) and phony items seemed the best fit, even though the seller just used a bad item descriptor probably for lack of not knowing what this thing is/was/could be.

To me, this looks like a theatrical prop, one to simulate a phone ringing by activating the switch on the right side of the board. Could also be used for a door bell, school bell or alarm bell. Nothing more than a ringer, a transformer and a switch on this board (and some original wiring) listed as a "Vintage home made telephone on board." I don't think it's UL approved, or would ever be. However, it is unique, and rare and probably worth a few bucks, to someone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251360212207
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: WesternElectricBen on October 17, 2013, 07:26:11 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on October 17, 2013, 07:18:57 PM
Just had to put this somewhere for posterity  ::) and phony items seemed the best fit, even though the seller just used a bad item descriptor probably for lack of not knowing what this thing is/was/could be.

To me, this looks like a theatrical prop, one to simulate a phone ringing by activating the switch on the right side of the board. Could also be used for a door bell, school bell or alarm bell. Nothing more than a ringer, a transformer and a switch on this board (and some original wiring) listed as a "Vintage home made telephone on board." I don't think it's UL approved, or would ever be. However, it is unique, and rare and probably worth a few bucks, to someone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251360212207

I'm kind of tempted to buy it and try it out. But then again, I don't have the room.

And I'm not too fond of burning down our house.

Ben
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on October 17, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
Yeah I was going to ask how far you live from the Fire Department Ben!

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: WesternElectricBen on October 17, 2013, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: AE_Collector on October 17, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
Yeah I was going to ask how far you live from the Fire Department Ben!

Terry

Haha, it's like paying to burn down your house.

Ben
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: ESalter on October 17, 2013, 08:02:51 PM
Oh come on guys!!!  I've plugged in things that have looked WAYYYY jenkier than that before!  It very seldom leads to fireworks.  Occasionally it does though :)

---Eric
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on October 18, 2013, 07:30:17 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on September 23, 2013, 08:26:16 PM
Seller just listed this as a "Westrn Electric Mushroom Rotary Telephone 500 C/D" in a 7 day auction but I don't see the light. Probably an honest mistake by someone who doesn't sell a lot of phones. On closer inspection, seems to be a mid 50's phone refurbed in '69 and left to rust somewhere after that. And, what's up with the network? Has the black cap but looks like a label was pasted on the side. Wasn't it twocvbloke who once thought about getting a rusted phone like this to restore? It's a bit high with an asked starting bid of $195.00 but it comes with FREE SHIPPING.

It didn't sell the first time around at $195 so the seller just re-listed it in a 7 day auction starting at $50 with a reserve, and $11.57 shipping. Still no "mushroom" so either Mr. Helpful didn't message the seller or the seller decided not to do anything about the message. Just saying . . .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231076669197
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: AE_Collector on October 18, 2013, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on October 18, 2013, 07:30:17 PM
Still no "mushroom"

No "e" in Western Electric either. Never a good thing to squander in a listing...the "Western Electric" name.

5 feet of wire...25 cents.    5 feet of "Western Electric Wire"...$75.00
1 pound of Solder..$3.95.   1 pound of "Western Electric Solder"....$147.00
1 old speaker......$4.25.     1 old "Western Electric Speaker".....$265.00
1 used Amplifier...$16.00.   1 Used "Western Electric Amplifier" ...$1687.00

Terry
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on October 19, 2013, 07:30:39 PM
Quote from: ESalter on October 17, 2013, 08:02:51 PMOh come on guys!!!  I've plugged in things that have looked WAYYYY jenkier than that before!  It very seldom leads to fireworks.  Occasionally it does though :)  ---Eric

Eric,

How's this one? Would you try your luck on that button?  ;D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141067265717

Seller listed it as a "Vintage Primitive Phone bell Working" and then said "I'm selling this Vintage Phone bell , I was told it is a phone bell but I think it can be a home ring bell or maybe a project , It is in working condition , the base it is in it measures 7 1/4" x 5 inches , the bell is 2 1/2" in diameter."

Nothing wrong with the listing but, honestly, would you plug it into the wall? At one point in time, Richard Ebergold did just that, obviously without UL approval.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: HarrySmith on January 27, 2014, 06:03:24 PM
I knoe fake candlesticks have been discussed before but I just came across 2 of them today so I thought it would bring it up for the "new" guys.
Always brass and always with the November 1910 date on the cup.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291062058095

This one even has a coin box!
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: tallguy58 on January 27, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
OMG! Someone paid $207 for that.

There ought to be a law. :o :o
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Scotophor on February 19, 2014, 02:20:56 AM
Quote from: TelePlay on September 23, 2013, 08:26:16 PMSeller just listed this as a "Westrn Electric Mushroom Rotary Telephone 500 C/D" in a 7 day auction but I don't see the light. Probably an honest mistake by someone who doesn't sell a lot of phones.

Someone (or several someones) are making the same IMO dishonest mistake over and over, as a form of keyword spamming to get more views. Try these searches:
In all categories: mushroom (phone, telephone)
In Collectibles > Radio, Phonograph, TV, Phone > Telephones: mushroom

You may find several phones that are not even 500s, let alone with a dial light. I have seen D1 mounts, 2500s, wall phones, a candlestick... even one touch-tone phone that happened to be a mushroom-gray COLOR (but that's not what the title was referring to).

I've seen the same type of thing in other categories that I collect too. Once a lazy or dishonest seller gets it in their head that using a certain keyword equals higher prices, they will use that keyword for every sale of something that is even the most remotely related. For another example from Telephones, search "Monophone" and see how many non-Monophones come up.


Quote from: AE_Collector on October 18, 2013, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on October 18, 2013, 07:30:17 PMStill no "mushroom"
No "e" in Western Electric either. Never a good thing to squander in a listing...the "Western Electric" name.

Sellers misspelling (or leaving out) the most important keyword in their title, loading the title with cryptic abbreviations or words nobody searches by (rare, look, LQQK, unique, etc.) always make me laugh and shake my head.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: HarrySmith on February 19, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
To be fair, not all sellers are being intentionally dishonest. Some are just uninformed and/or too lazy to research what they are selling. I once contacted a seller who was offering a  plain old 500 and listing it as a mushroom. I told him about the dial light & hood. He replied he did not know anything about phones and stated he saw an auction that resembled his phone. He sent me the auction number which was a mushroom. I indicated the light hood to him. He apologized and changed his listing.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on February 19, 2014, 08:52:55 AM
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 19, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
To be fair, not all sellers are being intentionally dishonest.

That is so true, Harry. I know we have a little fun with some sellers at their expense due to what they post out of lack of knowledge, but it is in fun in most cases. Yes, once and a while there is true dishonesty in one form or another, but in most cases it is not intentional and we post those cases as both a bit of a laugh and more for the educational purpose of pointing out an error, sometimes subtle except to the pro-phone guy, that shows up in an eBay listing. Good for you for educating that 500 seller.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on February 20, 2014, 07:05:20 AM
Quote from: Scotophor on February 19, 2014, 02:20:56 AMSellers misspelling (or leaving out) the most important keyword in their title, loading the title with cryptic abbreviations or words nobody searches by (rare, look, LQQK, unique, etc.) always make me laugh and shake my head.

The "Look" one that bugs me the most is "L@@K", cos to me that says LATATK, not "Look", but people like to make themselves appear to be numpties, it's best to just leave them be and have them lose a whole boatload of money on something they put "L@@K" on... :P
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on March 08, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
Couldn't figure out which of several topics this "Vintage Rotary Wooden Telephone w/ Ringer Box" would be the best place to post this so it's here.

Seller says it's Vintage Wooden Telephone w/ Antique Ringer Box and bells, I picked this rotary phone up at an Estate Sale. It needs repair of the wall cord. I have had it plugged in and it rang, but the static is very bad due to the damage of the plug. It is beautiful craftsmanship and worth repairing for someone who has the perfect place for this phone. It would be great in a cabin or in your home. We have enjoyed it for years as a work of art, but it can be repaired and used as a land line if you wish. I have included pictures of inside the box. You can see that someone updated the wiring. The crank is for looks only.


BIN for only $78.99 with Free Shipping, if anyone is interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351019171899
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: rdelius on March 08, 2014, 10:18:20 AM
Kellogg box, AE ringer,Norweigen handset, Belgium cradle,WE dial mount -a good one, TAP dial
Smells Phoneco
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on March 17, 2014, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: twocvbloke on February 20, 2014, 07:05:20 AM
The "Look" one that bugs me the most is "L@@K", cos to me that says LATATK, not "Look", but people like to make themselves appear to be numpties, it's best to just leave them be and have them lose a whole boatload of money on something they put "L@@K" on... :P

Hey, twocv . . .   L@@K at this!

An un-restored hard plastic sold for $517 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-PINK-Western-Electric-Mushroom-Rotary-Dial-Telephone-Phone-LIGHTED-1960-/141195703478) (as in Auction Contest 111) and this restored, matching date 1958 SP pink Mushroom (http://www.ebay.com/itm/301126160169) is but $400 BIN plus $15 for shipping.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: twocvbloke on March 17, 2014, 01:31:49 AM
See? if that sells for $400, then they've lost $117 right there.... ;D
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: tallguy58 on March 17, 2014, 03:24:48 PM
Sold.

Too late everyone.
Title: Fake Candlestick For Sale.
Post by: HarrySmith on November 15, 2018, 05:10:42 PM
Just spotted another fake candlestick on aBay. Has the usual November 1910 date on the tranmsitter cup amd what appears to be an AE dial. Comes with a 500 clone in a wood box as a subset.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273562014345
( dead link 05-27-21 )
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: rdelius on November 15, 2018, 06:40:58 PM
That is a Japanese "TAP" dial,all plastic but works well. An AE would be better
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: markosjal on July 08, 2019, 04:57:18 PM
Let me also add this:

I have bought and sold some phones of questionable origin here is one example in photos

This phone was purchased on ebay and listed as an Automatic Electric. It came out of the midwest. I got it cheap enough and when I got it, I did find 100% AE parts inside circa 1970s. Interestingly enough, I have now seen other wooden box phones from the same era with AE parts  and very similar design. Another such phone sold on ebay a few months ago witha a very similar design from a completely different region of the USA.

I did make this into a frankenstein phone however as the gongs on front were only decorative. It got an Ericsson ringer installed and new brass Ericsson Gongs that really rang on the front . Having one of the small ringers inside the wooden box was like putting the ringer under a pillow.  Gongs ringing on the front of phone made it more authentic and classy. It only required one hole for the clapper to come out.

Aside from the fact that there were no brass screws in it, Of course the brass screws may have required replacement with longer/fatter screws after many years . I almost believe this really was a 'real" AE and in fact even yesterday saw an odder AE desk set in a page here  in this forum. 

Link added here
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=22657.0

As I recall it was newer shell with older parts. It really makes me wonder if there was a move to get rid of all older AE parts at some point , when they started actually selling phones.

So my point is that we do not always know about the origin of something, and maybe even some of these were assembled by small independent telecos The "Mollalla Rural Telephone Company" in Oregon seemed to always have odd stuff installed as I recall, some SC, some AE , some WE, some ITT and some I could never identify. I even remember a telco installed Trimline type phone that was a mix of ITT and SC in Mollalla.

In my case of the wooden phone a buyer from Guadalajara was willing to pay a few hundred dollars saying it was "exactly what he was looking for".  I would again gamble on any wooden box phone like this as it was a huge margin and fast turn-around.

Also this guy in Argentina has a big business . He started by putting old phone parts into new wooden boxes and he has sold a lot of them all over the world.
https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-756984663-telefono-antiguo-de-pared-replica-_JM?quantity=1&variation=33236683194

So maybe a "purist" "collector" may not be interested in a wooden box AE phone that I could not prove was an AE box, but at the same time many buyers are interested. I never lied about the phone, I was told both that it was,  and that it was not all AE original as I received it, depending on who I asked.

I agree that I do not like replicas being sold off as authentic and always see this on ebay as well as lies on other products as well. There is one guy on mercadolibre mexico listing a Modular WE 500 as "Bakelite".
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Pourme on July 09, 2019, 09:18:01 AM
What caught my eye on this one is the recessed dial mount. That makes it unique, as compared to others I have seen. The live gongs are a very nice touch, as well!
Title: American Bell Candlestick Phone November 1910 - not mine
Post by: HarrySmith on March 04, 2020, 07:02:17 AM
Just came across another repro stick on eBay. Looks like the seller has no idea.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Candlestick-Phone-Brass-American-Bell-Telephone-Patented-1910-READ-DESCRIPTION/283804057111
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: FABphones on December 06, 2020, 04:20:42 AM
Another 1910 stick. Bidding currently at just over $152.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESTATE-FRESH-Old-Antique-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-COMPANY-Brass-CANDLE-STICK-TELEPHONE/154217714555

Screengrabs from listing:
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on December 07, 2020, 01:25:20 AM
I agree 100%.  There is somebody called AmericanHeritagemuseum.com, spelled that way with no spaces, trying to sell an ivory Western Electric 302.  They insist that it is a 30s phone, even though I have tried to point out to them that this 302 was made in the late 40s or early to mid 50s, and the reason I know that is because it has a Post War base plate, plus, 30s phones had a painted metal shell, not a plastic one.  They want almost $600.00 for it, and advertise it as completely restored, with no cracks or chips.  It is FULL of cracks.  E-Bay refuses to do anything about it.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: tubaman on December 07, 2020, 02:59:04 AM
Quote from: MMikeJBenN27 on December 07, 2020, 01:25:20 AM
I agree 100%.  There is somebody called AmericanHeritagemuseum.com, spelled that way with no spaces, trying to sell an ivory Western Electric 302.  They insist that it is a 30s phone, even though I have tried to point out to them that this 302 was made in the late 40s or early to mid 50s, and the reason I know that is because it has a Post War base plate, plus, 30s phones had a painted metal shell, not a plastic one.  They want almost $600.00 for it, and advertise it as completely restored, with no cracks or chips.  It is FULL of cracks.  E-Bay refuses to do anything about it.

Mike

Assume you mean this one - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Ivory-Model-302-Telephone-Fully-Restored-Circa-1930s/143660456427 - seller is "americanheritageusacom".
Not a good example at all, but at least that's clear from the photos despite the very misleading description.
If they 'have never seen a nicer ivory model' then I suggest a trip to Specsavers!
:)
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: FABphones on December 07, 2020, 03:15:06 AM
Screenshots, inc sellers phone description.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: tubaman on December 07, 2020, 04:37:27 AM
Quote from: FABphones on December 07, 2020, 03:15:06 AM
Screenshots, inc sellers phone description.

Thanks @FABphones - I should have done that myself.  :-[
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: FABphones on December 09, 2020, 05:05:49 PM
I must have missed something. Sold for $188 plus shipping.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: rdelius on December 10, 2020, 02:46:52 PM
Looks like a Phoneco reproduction to me
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Pourme on December 10, 2020, 06:48:41 PM
~

I tried to find it but failed, one sold not long ago for over $400.00

Mabey some of you saw that one. Ouch!
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: FABphones on May 28, 2021, 03:21:35 AM
Another 1910 fake/copy, recently sold on eBay UK. Extra thick paint on this one.

Price shown on screenshot was the auction start price, but was sold via the 'make offer' option.

Hope no one here bought this.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: tubaman on May 28, 2021, 03:42:17 AM
Quote from: FABphones on May 28, 2021, 03:21:35 AM
Another 1910 fake/copy, recently sold on eBay UK. Extra thick paint on this one.

Price shown on screenshot was the auction start price, but was sold via the 'make offer' option.

Hope no one here bought this.

I spotted that one. At initial glance it looked nice, but closer inspection soon revealed its true identity as you say.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on May 29, 2021, 03:19:16 AM
I second you!  There is a museum called the American Heritage Museum trying to sell two ivory Western Electric 302 sets.  One of them is being called a 1930s phone, despite the fact that 30s examples used a different base plate, and had a metal, not plastic shell.  I pointed this out to them, only to get blocked.  Their other 302 is being described as being made of "Thermalite", whatever that is, and is white, rather than ivory.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on May 29, 2021, 03:21:45 AM
I keep reporting this to E-Bay, and have even called them on the phone, but they refuse to do anything about it, yet if I describe an ITT phone as being just like Western Electric phones, which in fact they are, they take my auction down.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Babybearjs on May 30, 2021, 05:40:51 AM
You all have to remember that there are a lot of people outside the community that don't know what they have or know how to ID something.... so its up to you to bring these matters up to the sellers. there are times I have to write the seller and tell them what they actually have... most antique dealers know nothing about what they sell except what was told to them by the person who sold it to them (or gave it to them). and looking at what they are selling.... only the trained person knows exactly what it is....
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on June 04, 2021, 07:57:58 AM
Right now, somebody is trying to sell a North Electric phone that looks like it was made for the military as being from the Second World War, despite the fact that Touch Tone did not exist in the 40s.  This phone is probably from the 70s.  That seller has me blocked, so they have probably lied about items before and don't like it when I correct them.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Doug Rose on June 04, 2021, 08:56:37 AM
When talking about things on eBay, PLEASE take a second to copy the link so we know what you are talking about...Doug
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on June 04, 2021, 01:51:23 PM
Another one is sellers calling their color 302s "Extremely rare".  Blue ones are, but the others are not, especially the ivory ones.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on June 04, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
I don't know how to copy links.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Key2871 on June 04, 2021, 03:47:11 PM
Some sellers don't see them everyday, therefore they are rare. Plus it makes a great selling ploy.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: HarrySmith on June 04, 2021, 04:22:25 PM
Quote from: MMikeJBenN27 on June 04, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
I don't know how to copy links.

Mike

It's fairly easy. Click on the address bar. It should highlight. Right click, select "copy" from the pull down menu. Go to where you want to put it. Right click again, select "paste" from the pull down menu. In the case of eBay links they will be very long, shorten them by deleting everything after the item number. Item number will be right after "itm" in the link.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on June 08, 2021, 10:00:03 PM
One of the things that really bugs me is how sellers of Automatic Electric phones love to ad "Made in Northlake" to make it show in the North Electric section, yet E-Bay does nothing about this manipulation.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Key2871 on June 08, 2021, 10:23:50 PM
Some post them as Western Electric Automatic electric, and the sets are clearly AE. But I chock it up to the fact they want more exposure for their item.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on June 09, 2021, 12:40:50 AM
It bugs me, probably because E-Bay doesn't let me get away with things like that.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: markosjal on June 26, 2021, 06:38:09 AM
Quote from: MMikeJBenN27 on June 04, 2021, 07:57:58 AM
Right now, somebody is trying to sell a North Electric phone that looks like it was made for the military as being from the Second World War, despite the fact that Touch Tone did not exist in the 40s.  This phone is probably from the 70s.  That seller has me blocked, so they have probably lied about items before and don't like it when I correct them.

When i lived in Mexico and was buying phones on Mercadolibre (a Mexican auction site). A few sellers blocked me because they listed 1970s rotary phones as 1950s and i corrected them. They were especially bad at dating US and European phones.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on June 26, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
Probably crooks, as most people who really didn't know will say so.  Those who DO know, get mad that you are on to them.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Key2871 on June 26, 2021, 02:44:45 PM
The recent RARE Brown WE three slot phone, I was tempted to tell the seller WE never made a brown three slot. And it was clear as a sunny day it was painted by him, but I didn't because most times they either ignore you or as some have said, block you from their auctions.
Frankly as it's been said, buyer beware. Know what your buying ahead of bidding or live with it if you got a lemon that was supposed to be a gold nugget.
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: markosjal on May 01, 2022, 06:58:06 PM
Here is a great one

"Upgraded to "touch Tone"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334377931111

Additionally, from the bottom, it looks empty!
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on May 02, 2022, 06:58:36 AM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on March 17, 2011, 01:36:48 PM...I think we need to look long and hard at how we as a group discuss and put down items that are not, let's say, totally honest on e-Bay or other things like Craig's List.  Some sellers are more than happy to receive correcting information, and many are not...

Many don't really know much about what they are selling, that's true, but there are quite a few OTHERS who are deliberately lying about their item to try to make it worth more money than it really is, and will block you if you try to correct them.  One is the American Heritage Museum.  They lie about phones they are selling, and refuse to correct the description when you point out their errors, and block you from contacting them ever again on E-Bay.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: Darkstar2006 on August 03, 2022, 08:30:30 PM
I'm new to this forum and to antique phones in general. But I am an avid American Flyer Trains collector and I do see people claim that they know "nothing" about an item they are selling but if you check their other items for sale or sold its a bunch of the same type of items. I usually stay away and won't bid.
I have found that with phones and parts its pretty much the same. I'm just too stupid to realize when i'm being snowed.
So yes I have been burned but i keep the item and learn from it and ask more questions. You know like "does the dial rotate and return"
There is a person currently selling an AE bell unit. He says it works. Close examination of the picture of the label on the ringer clearly shows 33.3. I'm guessing he has a way of testing this thing at that frequency.  Because of my inexperience I don't what he could have used. I am new at this and didn't think it was my place to contact ask the seller how he tested the bell
I still think it should be stated that its a 33.3 ringer and not a SL ringer In the description   
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: TelePlay on August 03, 2022, 09:15:08 PM
Quote from: Darkstar2006 on August 03, 2022, 08:30:30 PMThere is a person currently selling an AE bell unit. He says it works. Close examination of the picture of the label on the ringer clearly shows 33.3. I'm guessing he has a way of testing this thing at that frequency. . . . I still think it should be stated that its a 33.3 ringer and not a SL ringer In the description   

If the seller knows that (the difference between physical construction and the numbers on the label), it would be best to state that. If the seller doesn't, unfortunately the seller is protected somewhat under eBay "rules" because the listing image shows the frequency.

eBay is always a "buyer beware" purchase and if a novice does not know that 33 1/3 on the ringer means frequency, the next point is what did the seller mean by saying it "works." I have had 33 1/2 Hz ringers ring softly on a 20 Hz POTS line so a seller having a phone with a soft ringing ringer can say it "works."

I sold that phone on eBay a year or two ago and stated in the listing description that the 33 1/3 Hz ringer worked but at a low sound level. The buyer was happy with the phone when received.

I see a lot of mistakes by sellers on eBay and feel sorry to the uninformed buyer who ends up with something less than what they think they will be getting. Even listings that show defects in the listing images can be a disappointment to the buyer once they hold the item in their hands even though the condition is right there in the image.

It's the intentional phony and fake items with false descriptions (other than unintended mistakes and typos) that can really bite a buyer if they don't have the knowledge to make an informed purchase.

Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on August 04, 2022, 04:34:37 PM
Quote from: markosjal on May 01, 2022, 06:58:06 PMHere is a great one

"Upgraded to "touch Tone"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334377931111

Additionally, from the bottom, it looks empty!
Wow.  What might have been worth something is now junk.  Shame.

Mike
Title: Re: Not so “RARE” phones, phony items and other such fakery on eBay
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on August 04, 2022, 04:38:33 PM
Quote from: markosjal on May 01, 2022, 06:58:06 PMHere is a great one

"Upgraded to "touch Tone"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334377931111

Additionally, from the bottom, it looks empty!
Wow.  What might have been worth something is now junk.  Shame.

Mike
Quote from: TelePlay on August 03, 2022, 09:15:08 PMIf the seller knows that (the difference between physical construction and the numbers on the label), it would be best to state that. If the seller doesn't, unfortunately the seller is protected somewhat under eBay "rules" because the listing image shows the frequency.

eBay is always a "buyer beware" purchase and if a novice does not know that 33 1/3 on the ringer means frequency, the next point is what did the seller mean by saying it "works." I have had 33 1/2 Hz ringers ring softly on a 20 Hz POTS line so a seller having a phone with a soft ringing ringer can say it "works."

I sold that phone on eBay a year or two ago and stated in the listing description that the 33 1/3 Hz ringer worked but at a low sound level. The buyer was happy with the phone when received.

I see a lot of mistakes by sellers on eBay and feel sorry to the uninformed buyer who ends up with something less than what they think they will be getting. Even listings that show defects in the listing images can be a disappointment to the buyer once they hold the item in their hands even though the condition is right there in the image.

It's the intentional phony and fake items with false descriptions (other than unintended mistakes and typos) that can really bite a buyer if they don't have the knowledge to make an informed purchase.


That's my point of view - the buyer who winds up getting burned.  It gives E-Bayers and E-Bay in general a bad image.  An image of crooks and con men.

Mike

Mike