302 ringer ID, please...

[Mr. Bones]

     I have a 302 base that features a rather (to me) atypical ringer. I'd have to guess it might be a frequency ringer(?), but the gongs look rather AE-esque.
   
    I'd appreciate any assistance in identification. I haven't combed over it for any numbers, yet.

Thanks in advance!

[G-Man]

Do You Have a photo?

[Mr. Bones]

Oops!

    Thanks, G-Man! Photo posted. Brief bout of Cerebral Flatulence.

[G-Man]

Yeah, a frequency ringer. Check to see if the frequency is printed on it; hopefully it is a 20-cycle ringer otherwise you will need to find a straight-line ringer for it.

[rdelius]

Ringer made by SC.remove the ringer and look at the magnet and the freq is usually stamped in ink

[poplar1]

Is the housing marked AB1 instead of H1? If so, that indicates a 251 set rather than a 302.

[Jim Stettler]

Is it just marked  Western Electric or is it  marked Bell System? Western Electric would sell phones to independents. Many times the Independents would buy them without ringers and/or dials and would use other suppliers for these parts.

Jim

[Mr. Bones]

Sigh.

    I wish it were that easy to do a thorough, proper forensic analysis of this telephone. Unfortunately, I only acquired a base, so no additional clues are forthcoming, as to its ancestry / origin. No telltale WE body / F1W handset, which I'd have to guess once accompannied this base.

    My initial observations were, however uninformed:

1> Non WE ringer. Frequency ringer, most likely , thus:
2> Independent Telco phone, most likely.

    It seems like the general consensus, from your responses, would tend to reinforce the above.

    I will pull the ringer today, and report any markings, as to date, or frequency.(~)

    I am hoping that it turns out to be a 20~ ringer, because I greatly enjoy the fact that it is rather atypical, and would love it to work as is, being a departure from the everyday '302'...Something about variety, and spice, etc. Can't quite recall...CRS kicking in   / coffee deficiency...maybe some of both.

    As always, your assistance, input, and knowledge is greatly appreciated!

Best regards!

[poplar1]

Looks like it's 30~. Both Stromberg-Carlson and Kellogg made ringers with shorter coils specially designed to fit the WE ringer mount.

I believe that WE stopped making harmonic ringers after the early 1930s.

534E desk set box (subset)= 41SG ringer 33 1/3 cycles
534F                                 = 41TG          50
534G                                    41UG         66 2/3
534H                                    41RG         16 2/3

Reference for table: Western Electric Telephone Apparatus and Supplies, Catalog No. 6 (c. 1925). By the 1930s, the 534A was no longer shown in the catalogs; it had been replaced by the 584A with Bakelite cover. However, the 534E, F, G, H were still shown in the catalog, probably because there were no replacements for these.

[Bill]

It certainly appears to be a frequency ringer. I note that the clapper is quite heavy, and its position is adjustable on the clapper rod via the setscrew. This suggests that by moving the clapper, the frequency could be changed, though I don't over what range.

Alternatively, instead of moving the clapper, it MIGHT be possible to change the frequency by changing the weight of the clapper. I'm not sure of this - the rod and clapper is kind of like a pendulum (think clock), and the frequency of a pendulum depends strongly on the length of the rod, but not at all on the weight of the bob. On the other hand, the ringer has a spring (instead of gravity), which isn't quite the same, so perhaps I am pushing the pendulum analogy too far.

Assuming that frequency is adjusted by moving the clapper, the frequency would be raised by moving the clapper inward (in the direction of the coils), and lowered by moving the clapper outward. If it is indeed a 30-cycle ringer, then the clapper would have to be moved outward to get to 20-cycles, and there doesn't appear to be much space left on the outer end of the rod.

If there is not sufficient space to move the clapper outward, try making the clapper heavier, adding some weight out toward the end of the rod. It could go either just inboard or just outboard of the clapper. Try wrapping a dozen turns of solder around the rod, right up against the clapper itself.

Just for grins, take a look at patent 3172100, where mechanical tuning via the clapper is described and discussed.

Bill