5302 Date Production ?

[rp2813]

Drew, that's an interesting handset.  I think the F1-W's were generally manufactured for non-Bell System telcos.   Western Electric used the F1 designation (without the W) for handsets on AT&T-issued 302's.  Experts, correct me if I'm wrong.

I wonder if WECo may have used earlier dials and handsets in tandem, and provided later dials with those 5302's that had the later G1 handsets.  Probably not, as the 5302's were more frankenphoney than even the 302's, which often have mismatched dates many years apart.

[Phonesrfun]

Ralph - You are correct about the F1W being sold outside of the Bell System.  I also have a 5302 whole phone that was made for outside the Bell System.  I also have a couple 5302's that WERE used within the Bell System.  The way to tell the difference is to look at the logo on the back of the phone body embossed in the plastic.  If it says Bell System, then it was used inside the Bell System.  If it just says Western Electric, then it was sold to an independant, or military, or some other non Bell System use.

-Bill Geurts

[baldopeacock]

I've noticed that the colored 5302's are rather desirable with this pink one bringing over $600. recently -  http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Western-Electric-PINK-5302-Transition-Telephone_W0QQitemZ230442084806QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a76b29c6

That pink 5302 was very nice - and the case was dated 10/59.  I was surprised to see a 5302 with such a late date code on the case and wrote Dennis to ask about it on his website.   The pics are still up on the eBay ad if anyone wants to see.   Also note in those photos -- the dial plate is PINK porcelain.   Imagine trying to find another.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Western-Electric-PINK-5302-Transition-Telephone_W0QQitemZ230442084806QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a76b29c6

[Drew]

Ralph - You are correct about the F1W being sold outside of the Bell System.  I also have a 5302 whole phone that was made for outside the Bell System.  I also have a couple 5302's that WERE used within the Bell System.  The way to tell the difference is to look at the logo on the back of the phone body embossed in the plastic.  If it says Bell System, then it was used inside the Bell System.  If it just says Western Electric, then it was sold to an independant, or military, or some other non Bell System use.

Interesting.....thanks for the info. My 5302 shell is embossed Bell System & has the F1W handset.  The phone does have a 'original feel' to it with  many close dates inside (1946)...a 302 repackaged  as a 5302 in the 50's.

I recently bought the phone and it  has an amusing number card. ...vintage, Washinton D.C. with no number, but an editorial in the blank area that reads "BU llsh** "!  (I've edited the last two letters).  Done in block printing that looks like phone company issue....but we know it's not.  Kind of funny since it's a Washington DC card.

[Jim Stettler]

It could of been produced by an installer w/ "official" BS tools. I know guys with that type of sense of humor.
Jim

[deedubya3800]

I have a 5302, mostly from 1946, with a 10-55 ringer and shell date of 1-5-60. I'd be very interested in finding the latest 5302 shell date out there, as that would closely indicate the end of the "run", if you can call it that.

[Greg G.]

Drew:

As you noted, they were not a logical link between the 302 and the 500.  I think what happened is the 500 was so popular in an economy of post-war boom that everyone had to have the new 500.  
-Bill Geurts

Another additional angle I heard was that WE had an excess of 302s because many of the metal ones were recalled during the war for the metal housings.  

[Phonesrfun]

There was really no "run" per se.  They did not start "producing" 5302's until the early 50's.  They were all created in the Western Electric refurb centers with already made and used 302 bases.  That is why you see the base with a 1949 date.

I believe they did make the shells right up into the early 60's, so that means that even 10 years after the 500 came into wide circulation, the Bell System was cranking out the 5302's

The 5302's were Bell's way of recycling and saving money.  The circuitry advantages of the 500 were not needed on shorter loops between the subscriber and the central office.  THe 302 was just fine for that, and still a very serviceable telephone.  So, they just kind of faked it by making a cover for the 302 base that looked like the 500.  The 302 base was shorter from end to end than it's younger brother, the 500, so the 5302 cover was naturally shorter too.

Many people think (logically so) that the 5302 was a design that led to the 500, and that it is a genealogical link between the 302 and the 500.  While this seems logical, it is not the case.

During those post war years of the 50's when all of us baby-boomers were being made, people like my parents were going crazy with families and buying houses and renting apartments, and so forth.  Once the Bell system came out with the 500, they had a bit of a supply and demand problem.  Mostly, they needed central offices, cables, and all the outside plant that was the backbone distribution to get the dial tone to the user.  It has been said that recycling the phones was one way they could put manufacturing resources into getting the distribution system in place.

[deedubya3800]

I've always wondered if more 5302's were made from whole 302's that had come in for refurb or if more were made using spare 302 parts from bins. I can see that while demand for phones in general, and the new 500 phone in particular, ramped up so steeply in the 50s, demand for the 302 itself may have gone down among many people who wanted the latest thing, resulting in many of them being sent back for a newer model, supplying Bell with even more 302's to convert.

I ask because mine seems to have been a complete Nov. 1946 302 before it was converted, likely in Jan. 1960 based on part dates to a 5302.

[paul-f]

ISTR reading articles in several employee publications that indicated that for several years in the 1950s-60s timeframe more sets came off the refurb lines in the WE distribution houses than were produced new in the WE factory.  The incremental cost to refurb a set was less than the cost of a new one, so management loved the refurb business.  Sets came in not only when they were replaced due to failure in the field, but also when subscribers moved to a new location and didn't take their phone with them.  As was pointed out in another topic, high turnover areas, such as university towns, provided a lot of the raw material.

The next time I encounter one of those articles, I'll post the source.

[deedubya3800]

Thanks! When you do, I'll eat it up like Soft Batch cookies!

[rdelius]

When I was with Chicago Old Telephone co we bought lots of 5302 sets for parts.A very large percentage of them were built on former metal sets. By the mid to late 1950s the sets might have needed rebuilding and buffing plastic might have made more sense than repainting metal housings.
PT supply had some NOS 5302 shells
Robby

[deedubya3800]

Based on a lot of articles and essays I've read about the 5302 online, it would seem that most 5302's were built using spare 302 parts from parts bins, but I've always suspected that most were built from existing whole 302 telephone sets, and "parts bin" 5302's (without a single matching date in the 302 parts) would be in the minority.

Since the the ringers were modified, I would think those might not match the rest of the phone, but I would think (but don't know for a fact) that most 5302's would have a network and coil that came with the baseplate. Mine is just that: the coil is dated IV 46 and the base 11/46. The ringer is 10-55, but the shell, cords, and all handset parts are from 59 and 60, particularly 12-59 and 1-60.

I've also wondered if 5302 "production" (quotes since it wasn't a true production run, per se) finally ended because (a) they were running out of 302 parts, (b) they were running out of 5302 parts, (c) 500 set supply was finally able to meet demand, (d) people got wise and were no longer buying leasing the ruse, or (e) some other reason.