I won this on eBay Friday with a buy it now. It looks like it might be a painted yellow (WHY!!!) Blue 302. The handset looks to be brown, but the shell sure looks to be blue! Why would someone paint it yellow. Was is WE, cord sure looks factory. I don't see any metal peeking out. I'll let you know....Doug
It looks like bare metal to me, but I sure hope you're right about being blue!!! ---Eric
Quote from: ESalter on November 15, 2011, 10:33:12 AM
It looks like bare metal to me, but I sure hope you're right about being blue!!! ---Eric
Eric....when I bought it I thought it was bare metal. The more I look, the more it looks blue. I hope I am right. Would that be a surprise!! Of course, I have no idea how to safely get paint off of thermoplastic in this large of an area....Doug
Looks like a '38 base to me!
I think it's possible it's a metal housing too, but I'd be plenty happy to discover '38 parts under all that paint.
I have to agree with GG here, Doug. If it is a metal 38 302 you've scored. If its blue thermoplastic you've also scored providing you can successfully get the paint off ;)
Tom...I thought it was an early metal 302 when I bought it. The more I looked the more blue it looked. I will be happy either way. A 4H dial wouldn't hurt....thanks...Doug
It is metal! It was a a WE factory Ivory paint job. It was never black. Did WE make color phone this early? It had been white, pink and yellow afterward. I think the yellow was put on with a paint brush! All over the feet and the dial! I am in the process of stripping the metal base. It looks new. Stamped H1 inside. Inside is painted Ivory, but up about 1/2 around the base. It is by far the best metal base I have ever stripped. Not a spot of corrosion and it shines like chrome. Finger wheel is a perfect match to the metal of the base. Paint comes off really easy, but only in layers or color. Base is 1/39 and the handset elements are 12/38. Dark.... dark brown, almost maroon handset. I have never seen one this dark. All in all a winner. Done for tonight, it's a school night.......Doug
http://tinyurl.com/bsofcnf
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 17, 2011, 07:27:53 PM
It is metal! It was a a WE factory Ivory paint job. It was never black. Did WE make color phone this early?
Absolutely. WE offered standard painted colors back in the 1920s on desk stands (candlesticks), then for all handset models after that.
Quote from: bingster on November 17, 2011, 08:15:26 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 17, 2011, 07:27:53 PM
It is metal! It was a a WE factory Ivory paint job. It was never black. Did WE make color phone this early?
Absolutely. WE offered standard painted colors back in the 1920s on desk stands (candlesticks), then for all handset models after that.
thanks Darrin....live and learn. I was amazed as I took off the paint and on the inside there was that 1/2 gap of no paint at all, all the way around. The metal is in just phenomenal shape, like it was made yesterday. I'll post some pictures on Saturday when I finish. I saved the vermilion H1 with vaseline. I don't think I have ever seen a metal shell that was not originally black. I am leaving the Ivory inside for proof for memory...Doug
I have to sharpen my eye !! I would have looked right past that phone. What a great treasure hidden by a bad paint job. Great find Doug! I can't wait to see how this phone turns out.
Metal phones can be deceptive. Under the paint can be a great phone or sh*t hidden by the paint. Paint will protect metal as well as bakelite from the ravages of time. Someone really had a field day in art class with this beauty. This was a factory painted Ivory 302, never black. Whoa! Never seen one that was never black first. It has come out a pewter color, sort of a nickel (.5 piece) that is uncirculated. I am considering to leave it as is with all the paint removed. When looking at Painted F1 handsets, giving away trade secrets here, look for the grooves, or lack of grooves. This was grooveless so worst case scenario a brown bakelite F1. Best case would have been a black grooveless F1 that were made for a very short time in late '36 to early '37. It was a BIN and I thought it was metal, after closer inspection of the pics,I thought it might be a painted blue thermoplastic set or the never seen blue softplastic phone that came with a painted handset to match. This fit the bill with the painted brown handset, but, alas... it is metal. A real nice consolation prize indeed!....Doug
Doug, leaving it bare metal with a brown thermoplastic handset might be a good way to show what's under the paint on these phones, if you ever conduct tours of your collection. It can always be repainted ivory later, since you left the color on the inside.
Somewhere I read that they used brown thermoplastic for these handsets because paint didn't adhere well to the black Bakelite. Later I think they had better paint, likely post-WWII. I have to wonder why they never made a solid brown phone, like the Mahogany Brown 500, out of the 302. Maybe they have and I just haven't seen one yet?
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 15, 2011, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: ESalter on November 15, 2011, 10:33:12 AM
It looks like bare metal to me, but I sure hope you're right about being blue!!! ---Eric
Eric....when I bought it I thought it was bare metal. The more I look, the more it looks blue. I hope I am right. Would that be a surprise!! Of course, I have no idea how to safely get paint off of thermoplastic in this large of an area....Doug
I've sucessfully used Easy-off oven claener to remove paint off plastic. Bill
Quote from: jsowers on November 18, 2011, 02:50:04 PM
Doug, leaving it bare metal with a brown thermoplastic handset might be a good way to show what's under the paint on these phones, if you ever conduct tours of your collection. It can always be repainted ivory later, since you left the color on the inside.
Somewhere I read that they used brown thermoplastic for these handsets because paint didn't adhere well to the black Bakelite. Later I think they had better paint, likely post-WWII. I have to wonder why they never made a solid brown phone, like the Mahogany Brown 500, out of the 302. Maybe they have and I just haven't seen one yet?
Jonathan....agreed. I would have loved to see a Mahogany 302. Seeing it next to an Ivory set would be like chocolate/white chocolate. WE must have had their reasons....take care....Doug
Quote from: wbos on November 18, 2011, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 15, 2011, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: ESalter on November 15, 2011, 10:33:12 AM
It looks like bare metal to me, but I sure hope you're right about being blue!!! ---Eric
Eric....when I bought it I thought it was bare metal. The more I look, the more it looks blue. I hope I am right. Would that be a surprise!! Of course, I have no idea how to safely get paint off of thermoplastic in this large of an area....Doug
I've sucessfully used Easy-off oven claener to remove paint off plastic. Bill
Bill.....Welcome to the Forum. I will remember to try that in the future. How long do you leave it on or do you know right away when it lifts off....thanks and welcome....Doug
Man its cold out this morning. 31 in MA. I got these pics before the sun came through the leafless trees. I will build the phone sometime this weekend. Here are pics of the phone with the paint removed....Doug
a few more pics
Looks very nice, Doug. I look forward to seeing it once you have it complete.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on November 19, 2011, 08:42:44 AM
Looks very nice, Doug. I look forward to seeing it once you have it complete.
Hi Doug:
Its going to be beautiful, Doug!
Dave
Did the phone come with the 4H dial?
Here is the finished phone. I had a thick clear "X" flange finger wheel that went on the 4Js and a set of clear plungers. The dial is dated 1/39 like the base. So for the time being, this is it. I have never attached one of these finger wheels, wasn't easy. Also the dial card space is smaller. Had to cut the card and the clear window....Doug
Doug
That is one gorgeous piece. You have done a great job with it - get yourself a beer, mate
NICE ;D
Quote from: Tom B on November 19, 2011, 02:05:33 PM
Doug
That is one gorgeous piece. You have done a great job with it - get yourself a beer, mate
Thanks Tom....I apreciate it. A beer?.....well alright....maybe a Pint...or two....thanks again....Doug
Quote from: HarrySmith on November 19, 2011, 02:06:39 PM
NICE ;D
thanks Harry. I'm still not sure about it, but it is growing on me. Isn't the metal shell amazing!...Doug
Doug
You deserve at least 3 pints ;D
Is it a keeper?
Yes, the shell looks brand new, did you clear coat it or anything? That Brown bakelite handset looks amazing too! What did you use to shine it up like that? I have not had a brown one and the black ones are not easy to get a shine on!
It looks great, Doug. That handset looks awesome on there. The white dial and clear plungers look nice too. Very unusual look. Better make room for it on one of your shelves.
Quote from: HarrySmith on November 19, 2011, 06:27:01 PM
Yes, the shell looks brand new, did you clear coat it or anything? That Brown bakelite handset looks amazing too! What did you use to shine it up like that? I have not had a brown one and the black ones are not easy to get a shine on!
Harry...after stripping....I used fine steel wool and Avon skin so soft. My hands are killing me from the stripper, two weeks in a row and the sh*t tears the rubber gloves apart. The skin comes off easier than the paint, but I'm not complaining
Thanks Dennis....I think it is a keeper....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 18, 2011, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: wbos on November 18, 2011, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 15, 2011, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: ESalter on November 15, 2011, 10:33:12 AM
It looks like bare metal to me, but I sure hope you're right about being blue!!! ---Eric
Eric....when I bought it I thought it was bare metal. The more I look, the more it looks blue. I hope I am right. Would that be a surprise!! Of course, I have no idea how to safely get paint off of thermoplastic in this large of an area....Doug
I've sucessfully used Easy-off oven claener to remove paint off plastic. Bill
Bill.....Welcome to the Forum. I will remember to try that in the future. How long do you leave it on or do you know right away when it lifts off....thanks and welcome....Doug
Hi Doug, Usually it softens within 20-30 minutes depending on how thick and the type of paint that was used. Bill
Looks great, and a nice change of pace from the more common treatment that would match the dial fingerwheel to the handset. The clear hookswitch plungers provide a kind of symmetry that makes your combination look correct.
Though, to be just a wee bit picky, a dial number card showing a two-letter/five-digit combination would usually be used with a metropolitan (alphanumeric) numberplate. For a rural (numeric) numberplate, a four or five digit number card.
Nonetheless, it all looks original, and one has to wonder why WE didn't issue these with bare metal housings, or if corrosion was an issue, with some kind of clear protective coat. Over time and with normal wear, the set would retain a newer look for longer, than occurs when black paint becomes worn and shows the metal under it.
GG...the dial card is a reproduction of my phone number. I did not want to cut a real dial card to make it fit. I have never stripped a metal 302 without at least a trace of corrosion, that that must be the reason. I am not a fan of clear coat, so I will leave it as is....thanks...Doug
Doug, you might just start a trend here. (Who's next?)
I'm sure all of us have (or can obtain at reasonable price) a metal 302 with paint worn off in all the usual places. To my eyes, bare metal that's reasonably uniform looks better than paint that's all scratched up & worn off (the exception being rare historic pieces that ought to be kept as-is or, arguably, fully restored).
Then come all the variations: black fingerwheel, bare aluminum fingerwheel, all with a black handset and black hookswitch plungers: those being fairly common combinations.
Question is, what to do when you find corrosion on a metal housing?
Corrosion is the end of the line. I have not been able to take it out with a wire brush on a drill. Pending on where it is or how bad it is to be acceptable. Usually around the cradle ears and the edges around the bottom are the worst. At that point it is either painted or plated. Mine looks like it just came off the WE factory line, except for the Ivory paint. Totally amazing!....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 15, 2011, 08:26:01 AM
I won this on eBay Friday with a buy it now. It looks like it might be a painted yellow (WHY!!!) Blue 302. The handset looks to be brown, but the shell sure looks to be blue! Why would someone paint it yellow. Was is WE, cord sure looks factory. I don't see any metal peeking out. I'll let you know....Doug
Ha! Maybe you found this one? ;-)
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=312.0;attach=27747;image)
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 21, 2011, 10:46:45 AM
Corrosion is the end of the line. I have not been able to take it out with a wire brush on a drill. Pending on where it is or how bad it is to be acceptable. Usually around the cradle ears and the edges around the bottom are the worst. At that point it is either painted or plated. Mine looks like it just came off the WE factory line, except for the Ivory paint. Totally amazing!....Doug
You can by some "aluminum welding rod" that's sort of half way between brazing rod & solder. I've seen people use it to fill pits in pot metal. I wonder if it would be possible to fill corrosion pits in phone bodies? You'd have to dress the repair afterward, of course, and it's possible the color of the metal wouldn't match. Although if it didn't it might be fun to do this:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/spray-on-chrome/1232328/
Quote from: old_stuff_hound on November 23, 2011, 02:07:08 PM
Ha! Maybe you found this one? ;-)
Thanks for the laugh for the day! It's a very close match. Is that John Lithgow? And is the movie Buckaroo Banzai? I've never seen the movie. He sure has a crazed look on his face.
The phones are very similar, but the handset cord is different and you can see where they tried to paint the black cord yellow and it's still black in places.
One other comment I wanted to make on Doug's phone--do you think having all those layers of paint on it protected the metal? Corrosion couldn't get through all that stuff!
Quote from: jsowers on November 23, 2011, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: old_stuff_hound on November 23, 2011, 02:07:08 PM
Ha! Maybe you found this one? ;-)
One other comment I wanted to make on Doug's phone--do you think having all those layers of paint on it protected the metal? Corrosion couldn't get through all that stuff!
Jonathan....I'd like to say yes, but there were a lot of bare metal areas showing through, the reason I thought it might have been blue. Especially by the ears and on the front corners. Paint surely will protect metal and bakelite, but there were some rather large exposed areas.....Doug
Quote from: jsowers on November 23, 2011, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: old_stuff_hound on November 23, 2011, 02:07:08 PM
Ha! Maybe you found this one? ;-)
Thanks for the laugh for the day! It's a very close match. Is that John Lithgow? And is the movie Buckaroo Banzai? He sure has a crazed look on his face.
Yes, yes, and yes (in that order). It's one of may favorite cheesy movies -- a guilty pleasure. ;-)
I noticed the paint flaking off the cord, but only after I captured the still. In the movie it goes by so fast you'd never notice.
Cheers!
Quote from: jsowers on November 23, 2011, 04:33:35 PM
Is that John Lithgow? !
Has to be him. I stumbled upon reruns of "Third Rock from the Sun" episodes here in Canada so the PVR is recording them all. I thought that show was hilarious and that John Lithgow is an excellent actor.
Terry
Quote from: Doug Rose on November 19, 2011, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on November 19, 2011, 06:27:01 PM
Yes, the shell looks brand new, did you clear coat it or anything? That Brown bakelite handset looks amazing too! What did you use to shine it up like that? I have not had a brown one and the black ones are not easy to get a shine on!
Harry...after stripping....I used fine steel wool and Avon skin so soft. My hands are killing me from the stripper, two weeks in a row and the sh*t tears the rubber gloves apart. The skin comes off easier than the paint, but I'm not complaining
Thanks Dennis....I think it is a keeper....Doug
How long did you go with the steel wool before applying Skin So Soft on the handset? I'm wondering if I just didn't have enough patience with the steel wool cause all the skin so soft just wiped right back off.
Some handsets take longer than others. As you go over it with fine steel wool you will shine it start to shine, almost a glow. For stubborn grime, stripper or Noxon will help. If the bakelite has an orange peel or deep scratches it's time to toss it.
This works everytime for me, but there are members of the Forum who think I'm crazy ........and that doesn't work as well!!! ???...Doug
Thanks Doug. I'll give it another shot.