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Picked up a few more phones.

Started by Greg G., February 26, 2009, 02:29:34 AM

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Greg G.

I had two, now I have 5.  I picked up 3 500s I found posted on Craigslist.  All 3 for $10, and he said they were hardwired, so I figured I couldn't go wrong.  Using some of the tips from Mark's articles, I saw that all 3 have been refurbished at some time, but again, $10 for all 3, what the heck, I can always use them for parts.  (You can't see it in the picture, but the sticker on the bottom of the red one says "9-74").  Turned out two were hardwired, one was modular, but that was still ok because the one that was hardwired had a beige cord that I needed for my project phone.

That brings me to my first question.  (Remember, I know zilch about electronics). The phone I'm robbing for the cord is an AE, the phone I want to use it on is a WE, and the handset cords have different color codes for the wires.  Is that going to make any difference?   The old cord has red and black wires on the mouth piece and two white wires on the ear piece.  The one I want to rob has a red and green wires on the mouth piece and black and yellow wires on the ear piece.  It was a wall phone and was minus the wall cord, so I couldn't test it to see if it worked. 

Next question - The two others are desk phones and both work fine.  I really like the hardwired red one, but funny enough, the modular beige one has a better "feel" and "sound" to the dial, and a much nicer and louder ring than the red one, even though they were both turned up to full volume.  The red one is WE, but the beige one says ATT on the body and WE on the handset.  I haven't dug into them yet, but would I be correct in guessing that the biege dial has metal gears, and the red one plastic gears, hence the difference in the sound and feel of the dials?

Third question - Even though I was only robbing the wall phone for it's handset cord and it was minus the wall cord anyway, I took the bells off to clean the cobwebs and dead bugs off.  I noticed when I went to put them back on, one is marked with an "X", and the holes are off-centered.  I wasn't sure I replaced them correctly, even though I don't plan on getting it working, it's just something I'd like to know.

Here are the pics:


The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

BDM

I'll answer what I can. The AE cord uses different color coding, and possibly a slightly different end that goes into the handset. Also pigtail lengths are going to be slightly different. But, it can work. BTW that's a late AE 90 with a circuit board network. The early versions had a potted network similar to the W.E. 425/426 networks.

I would think the older red W.E. has the earlier dial. It may need a good cleaning and lube. Dennis can better answer this. The bell mounting holes are eccentric (if I'm using the right word?). This allows adjustments for volume & pitch, depending how far the bell is rotated from the gong. W.E. tended to code their bells with numbers/letters, example 41B, or 41A, or 40A. Without looking since I'm at work, AE used letter designations.
--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

Dennis Markham

The A.E. handset cords are a bit different as far as the restraint where it connects to the phone (I think---I'd have to look at one I have to be sure).  I'll send you a PM about a cord I found in my stuff that you can use for your beige 500 if you're interested.

Since I have only tinkered with a couple A.E.'s of this style and vintage, I am not as confident with my diagnosis/suggestions with regard to the bells and markings.  Generally as BDM suggested, one or both of the gongs can be rotated to move them closer to and away from the clapper to adjust for a stronger ring.

With regard to the ringing of the 500's.  The ringer can be adjusted by moving the bias tension spring...that is the little thin wire that runs between the gongs below the clapper.  It feeds into a little maze-like looking piece.  There are two adjustments.  Try moving it from the current position to the other position and see if that helps.  On the ringers in these phones, (more than likely your is a C4A) the left gong (as you're looking at them from the back) should be numbered 55A.  The right gong is 54A.  According to a Bell System Practice, the odd-numbered going should always be the one that adjusts and has the "eccentric circle" (hole), again as BDM suggested.  The right gong (54A) has the concentric circle and it is centered.  Rotating #54A will not move it closer or further away from the clapper.  ONLY the 55A will do that. 

So you have to do some trial and error.  As a rule of thumb, rotate the 55A gong (left gong) until it's just away from the clapper when at rest.   Then if you can, ring the phone.  While it is ringing I will stifle one gong (by holding it) to allow me to listen to the clarity of the remaining gong while ringing.  If it does not resonate or have a good clear ring, adjust it.  Then listen to the opposite, and then together.  They should be harmonic and a distinct difference in sound from a single gong ring to both of them ringing.  I'll bet the red one will ring just as nice as the beige one with some adjustment.  Sometimes however some ringers are just weaker than others.  They all have their own individuality. The beige phone is an ITT so it it is a later made phone.  I have found that those ITT ringers are generally very strong.  Some of them are from the early 70's so they're still just kids.  :)

With regard to the dials.  Rather than trying to determine what's what by the way they sound, simply look at the dial model numbers on the back.  Now I don't remember what designation ITT put on the backs of their dials VS the Western Electric dials.  Based upon the photo of the red phone....tapered handset cord, round replacement feet and the date it looks like the plastic was changed in 1974 which would have included the dial.  So that is a later dial, probably and #8 or #9.  On occasion you will find a Western Electric dial on an ITT phone but it's not very common.  I would say that dial is not much different as far as how it was manufactured.  Because of the thin opening in the dial plate of the red phone, where the finger stop comes through, and the way the dial is mounted to the dial plate you're pretty much stuck with that type dial for that dial ring.  You couldn't put an older one on there if you had one.  But that phone will clean up very nice. If you cleaned it up, tweaked the ringer to work nice and threw it on eBay (at the right time) you'd make enough to pay for all three of them and maybe get enough to buy something else.  Especially at Christmas time, the red phones do very well.

The plastic on that beige AE90 appears to be quite badly discolored from light exposure.  But I I wouldn't try putting the AE cord on the 500.  Then you're stuck with an AE 90 with no cord.  It could be a good parts phone but I always avoid mixing parts from different manufacturers.  One is just not made for the other unless you're talking cords for a 500 type phone then ITT, Western Electric, Stromberg Carlson, etc.  I guess even handsets and caps can be swapped but I like keeping apples with apples and oranges with oranges.

What you're doing here is learning about them with each one you bring into the house.  Eventually, as I have done I get to the point where I am selective about what I drag home despite the price because I just have accumulated so much stuff that I can't use or sell.  But I have done the same thing...brought home a box of discolored modular phones just for the parts...ringers, dials, etc.  But since I can't find it in my heart to throw stuff away the remaining pieces pile up.

McHeath

The black bottom on the red phone indicates that it was originally made before 1964, when they moved to yellow cad plated bases.  Dennis gave a great explanation of the gongs and how to adjust them, I learned stuff I did not know!

Dennis Markham

Heath, actually the brass colored "anodized" bases were a bit later....1968, I believe.

McHeath

Was it?  I'm only quoting what I read here:

http://members.dslextreme.com/~zuperdee/telephones/500_history/we_500_history.html

and so I may very well be wrong.  Also, earlier we had talked about rust on the yellow cad plated bases and I've looked all mine over and there is no rust on any of them, even one that spent its life in Indiana and not sunny California.  I like the look of the black bases better, but the yellow ones were the phones I grew up with. 



Dennis Markham

Well according to that they were black in 1964 and not black in 1965.  So I was wrong in my thinking---if that is correct.  But now that I think about it I can't recall a black bottom from 1966....but I don't have that many.   I do have a 1964 that is black.  Sorry to give you wrong information.

Dennis Markham

I just checked some of my phones.  I found a 4/1965 with a black base.  A couple of 1966, both with the yellow cadmium base.

Open mouth, insert foot.  :)

McHeath

Wouldn't be surprised if the change over to cad bases was spread out a bit.  That seems to have been standard practice for the Bell System, things got updated but old stuff was used up.