202 oiling of dial

[happy hooligan]

may have been posted before but I didn't see it...

I'm cleaning up my first WE 202 and the dial is sticky.  Where should I oil it?  also how do I remove the dial card  to clean it up a tad....

[bingster]

Welcome to the forum, happy hooligan!

Here's how to remove the number card ring:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=258.0

Others will be along shortly to weigh in on the dial.

[Dave203]

may have been posted before but I didn't see it...

I'm cleaning up my first WE 202 and the dial is sticky.  Where should I oil it?  also how do I remove the dial card  to clean it up a tad....

I also have a 202 with a sticky dial

I took off the number card but not sure if I should try taking the dial off next.

[TelePlay]

What dial do you have? WE #2, 4, 5, 6 or something else? Post pictures of the front and back.

Here is a good place to research dial service info.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=25.0

Dials slow down for 2 reason: 1) the original lubricant has dried up and friction takes over, and 2) the dial was over lubricated causing dirt to collect in the oil and turning to hard, movement restraining crud in the gear teeth and axel points.

The first requires minimal, suitable lubrication placed in specific places.

The second requires disassembly, thorough cleaning of all parts and reassembly with minimal, suitable lubrication placed in specific places.

Or you can send the dial to Steve Hilsz who will restore a dial for under $10 each.

[Dave203]

What dial do you have? WE #2, 4, 5, 6 or something else? Post pictures of the front and back.

Here is a good place to research dial service info.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=25.0

Dials slow down for 2 reason: 1) the original lubricant has dried up and friction takes over, and 2) the dial was over lubricated causing dirt to collect in the oil and turning to hard, movement restraining crud in the gear teeth and axel points.

The first requires minimal, suitable lubrication placed in specific places.

The second requires disassembly, thorough cleaning of all parts and reassembly with minimal, suitable lubrication placed in specific places.

Or you can send the dial to Steve Hilsz who will restore a dial for under $10 each.

I'm not sure what dial number it is but assuming most are alike, can I unscrew the little bolt in the center without causing any major problems?

[SUnset2]

I'm not sure what dial number it is but assuming most are alike, can I unscrew the little bolt in the center without causing any major problems?

If you are talking about the nut holding on the fingerwheel, that can come off without anything going sproing!  You should see some places to lube under there, as well as from the back.  Don't get any oil on the governor, or it will run too fast.  And don't use WD-40, it will turn gummy.

[TelePlay]

I'm not sure what dial number it is but assuming most are alike, can I unscrew the little bolt in the center without causing any major problems?

No, they are not alike by a long shot and no, removing the "bolt" (I assume you mean the finger wheel holder) in the center won't do anything other the allow removal of the finger wheel.

Post an image of the back and we will tell you what model number dial you have and how to oil it.

You may have a 5H dial which is similar to but different from the 4H and 6H dial.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=27061.0

The rotary dial is a well engineered but the most complex part of the phone to clean and adjust. The early dials were made to be fixed, cleaned and oiled by the phone company to save them money. Some phone hobbyists have learned how to do that themselves, it's not that difficult for anyone with mechanical abilities or interests.

[TelePlay]

Historically dials were improved over time for several reasons. Due to patent rights, each company had to come up with their own design which they improved over time.

Automatic Electric, Kellogg, Stromberg Carlson and others designed their own dials, or bought dials from WE or another company if they didn't make their own. Foreign manufacturers had their own dials or bought under licensing contract dials from companies that made them, sometimes with slight variations to meet their system requirements.

While the WE #9 dial is a cheaply made throw away version of the WE #7 dial, the 7 was an improvement over the 7, the 6 an improvement over the 5, the 5 an improvement over the 4 and the #4 an improvement over the #2.

BTW, a #2 dial is hard to find and worth a lot more than any other WE dial. WE dials are, in general, worth more than other manufacturer's dials due to their quality.

Finally, adding lubricant to bearing axels and gear teeth will "unstick" a dry dial. Adding lubricant to a dirty, crudded up dial (without first cleaning it) will just make it worse.

[TelePlay]

Historically dials were improved over time for several reasons. Due to patent rights, each company had to come up with their own design which they improved over time.

Automatic Electric, Kellogg, Stromberg Carlson and others designed their own dials, or bought dials from WE or another company if they didn't make their own. Foreign manufacturers had their own dials or bought under licensing contract dials from companies that made them, sometimes with slight variations to meet their system requirements.

While the WE #9 dial is a cheaply made throw away version of the WE #7 dial, the 7 was an improvement over the 6, the 6 an improvement over the 5, the 5 an improvement over the 4 and the #4 an improvement over the #2.

BTW, a #2 dial is hard to find and worth a lot more than any other WE dial. WE dials are, in general, worth more than other manufacturer's dials due to their quality.

Finally, adding lubricant to bearing axels and gear teeth will "unstick" a dry dial. Adding lubricant to a dirty, crudded up dial (without first cleaning it) will just make it worse.

Also, as you may know, historically, 202 is not the dial, it is the complete telephone setup consisting of a D1 desk set and a anti-sidetone subset (subscriber set) "box" containing the ringer and talk circuit components (all that was made smaller and placed into the improved one piece phone, the 302. The final iteration of the basic phone was the WE 500.

[Dave203]

If you are talking about the nut holding on the fingerwheel, that can come off without anything going sproing!  You should see some places to lube under there, as well as from the back.  Don't get any oil on the governor, or it will run too fast.  And don't use WD-40, it will turn gummy.

Yes, the fingerwheel. I'm sorry.
I am asking because I once took apart the dial of a princess phone when I was a teenager and I'm afraid I ruined it.

I did take off fingerwheel and it's dirty under here with some fuzz. It may even work better with this part cleaned up.
Thank you kindly for the reply!

[Dave203]

No, they are not alike by a long shot and no, removing the "bolt" (I assume you mean the finger wheel holder) in the center won't do anything other the allow removal of the finger wheel.

Post an image of the back and we will tell you what model number dial you have and how to oil it.

You may have a 5H dial which is similar to but different from the 4H and 6H dial.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=27061.0

The rotary dial is a well engineered but the most complex part of the phone to clean and adjust. The early dials were made to be fixed, cleaned and oiled by the phone company to save them money. Some phone hobbyists have learned how to do that themselves, it's not that difficult for anyone with mechanical abilities or interests.

Thank you also for the link and wealth of information. I took a photo but I can tell what is the correct button for inserting a photo to the form is.

I am still not sure what type of dial it is but under the fingerwheel on the number 0 there is a letter Z - that I don't have on another similar phone.

I took off the fingerwheel and under it I can read numbers "150B IV48" I could be wrong but that's what it looks like.

Does this sound like a dial you are familiar with?

[TelePlay]

If a 5H dial, under the finger wheel you first find the number plate held on by the number plate retaining ring. Under that is a dust cover. Under the dust cover is a metal support to keep the dust cover off of the dial moving parts.

The number plate "numbers" can be whatever the phone company wanted them to be for the location where the phone would be used, had nothing to do with the dial.

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To attach an image (up to 6 per reply), at the bottom of the text box, click on "Click or drag files here to attach them." Then find the image you want to attach and click on it. When done adding text and/or images, click on the "Post" button. Images must be under 3MBytes in size (each) or they will not upload.

This is the front of a #5H dial (your phone may have a #4, #5 or #6 dial). The #8 is of a totally different design.

[TelePlay]

I took a photo but I can tell what is the correct button for inserting a photo to the form is.

I took these some time ago and put them together so you can compare your dial with the images to see which you have.

These show the changes made by WE to the dials to improve them for one reason or another. These images show the external changes but they also may internal changes, which can't be seen, to the actual dialing movement (gear trains and pulsing mechanism)