This may have been covered before, but has anyone else found white mold growing on the plastic number bezels of 1950's era 500 & 5302 models? My house isn't large enough to display all of my phones, so some are packed in boxes in my basement.
It's not overly damp, and I do run a dehumidifier when needed, but when I get the phones out to clean them, sometimes I find the mold. It is usually only on the plastic dial bezels.
It seems to clean off easily enough, but it's odd how it likes that particular plastic. I'm thinking of putting something like coffee, baking soda, charcoal, soap powder, etc, into a cheesecloth bag to put into the box, to try to ward off the mold. Maybe those homebrewing / hop bags can have another use, packed with the phones. ;D
Has anyone else had this mold problem?
Josh P
One of my 5302s was coated with it. I gave it a good soak in Oxiclean, it hasn't returned, but it's not stored in a basement either.
Tenite (soft plastic) is made of cellulose, so it is a nutrient source for mold. You need to use Oxyclean or bleach or something to eliminate the mold spores to keep mold from regrowing when moisture is present.
Larry
I have soaked the plastic in a bleach/water mixture after I've cleaned the mold. I was told by a long-time collector that the bleach "kills" the mold from growing back. It usually seems to be with the black phones. The soaking doesn't effect the color.
As with Brinybay the only phones I have had this happen to was with two 5302's that I had in storage in the basement. The mold was on most of the phone but seemed to be worse on the dial bezel. I cleaned them up with dish soap & water and it started to return. So I cleaned them again with a spray bottle of 4 parts water and 1 part bleach and that did the trick. One of them was used with Russ Cowell's article on the 5302 in the Nov. TCI Singing Wires Journal. So it went from an oldie moldy to celebrity status.
Quote from: Wallphone on January 11, 2011, 08:53:19 AM
As with Brinybay the only phones I have had this happen to was with two 5302's that I had in storage in the basement. The mold was on most of the phone but seemed to be worse on the dial bezel. I cleaned them up with dish soap & water and it started to return. So I cleaned them again with a spray bottle of 4 parts water and 1 part bleach and that did the trick. One of them was used with Russ Cowell's article on the 5302 in the Nov. TCI Singing Wires Journal. So it went from an oldie moldy to celebrity status.
Dang, I always get "shiny phone envy" when I see phones like that!
I have had a few with the mold issue, mostly 302's. As I have stated before my usual procedure for cleaning a phone is to take it apart and soak the plastics in a bucket with Oxiclean and hot water. I use a very string mixture, approx twice what is recommended. This removes it easily and I have not had the mold return but I also do not have a basement to store them in.
I have a lot of moldy phones this winter. I've been cleaning them with regular Windex (ammonia, I assume).
I don't know if the Windex will kill the mold permanently. Does anyone else use Windex?
-Matt
Mold??
I thought it was powdered sugar ...
http://picasaweb.google.com/Amelyenator/EarlyNorth541PhoneWithAluminumBase#5350758335672190370
( dead link 06-24-21 )
Addendum:
This is the dial bezel of a North 541 from October 1956. I think it was used for 5-6 years and then stored in a shed in the state of Maine (Heck, now we buy iPhones to be later replaced in a year or two!). The fact that is very difficult to clean under the finger wheel is probably why it turned like as shown in the picture. Under the hood is all WE, except for the ringer and dial.
I've heard of molded plastic, but that's ridiculous!
;D
Wall, that's a beautiful 5302. Thanks for posting the pics.
Good to know about the bleach. I was wondering if it was used on black as well as white, so I won't be afraid to use it now.
I got a good pic of the mold, and it looks really odd, but camera batteries are dead at the moment. Will try to post a before & after pic later. It's odd how it's on the dial bezel only, I thought the housings were tenite also.
Josh
Quote from: Wallphone on January 11, 2011, 08:53:19 AM
As with Brinybay the only phones I have had this happen to was with two 5302's that I had in storage in the basement. The mold was on most of the phone but seemed to be worse on the dial bezel. I cleaned them up with dish soap & water and it started to return. So I cleaned them again with a spray bottle of 4 parts water and 1 part bleach and that did the trick. One of them was used with Russ Cowell's article on the 5302 in the Nov. TCI Singing Wires Journal. So it went from an oldie moldy to celebrity status.
I like your second picture a lot. The handset looks like made of black granite. Very nice shot.
PS: (There used to be a guy in the forum, fishlover or something like that, that used to show his beautiful, shiny collection to us. I wonder what he is doing these days. ??? ??? ??? )
Jorge....Finlover....cars not fish. Greg pops on now and then. He is the master of plastics. His work is top notch. ....Doug
Quote from: guitar1580 on January 11, 2011, 09:48:33 PM
It's odd how it's on the dial bezel only, I thought the housings were tenite also.
Josh, the dial bezels were made by a supplier and not at the Indianapolis Works, at least to begin with. It was rather high tech for the 1950s, molding two different color plastics together like that. If you look closely on the early bezels, you'll see MPCo molded into the back, in a circle.
Whether the plastic recipe was different or maybe the care of the molds (by that I mean what the bezel was formed in) was not as scrupulous as at WE or what--we'll never know--but the mold does seem to come more from the bezels. Maybe the factory was damp? It's nice to wonder about why things happened the way they did.
Quote from: Kidphone on January 12, 2011, 09:52:37 AM
Jorge....Finlover....cars not fish. Greg pops on now and then. He is the master of plastics. His work is top notch. ....Doug
No...I think it was fishlover.
(Jorge is in a quirky mood these days...needs another sanding project)
Terry
Quote from: ae_collector on January 12, 2011, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: Kidphone on January 12, 2011, 09:52:37 AM
Jorge....Finlover....cars not fish. Greg pops on now and then. He is the master of plastics. His work is top notch. ....Doug
No...I think it was fishlover.
(Jorge is in a quirky mood these days...needs another sanding project)
Terry
... and you have the right phone for this project: a gray AE80, right?
Best thing you can do for eliminating the growth of mold is to get the damp air moving out of the house. Air exchangers are the best way to go, HRV/ERV's are expensive but IMO worth every cent. No more mold !! The dehumidfiers and bags in the basement are just stopgap measures.
I am sure by selling just a couple of your phones you will have the cash to get a 21st century air ventilation system and presto no more damage to your valuable collection. And no i don't sell HRVS. :)
Quote from: JorgeAmely on January 12, 2011, 12:30:43 PM
... and you have the right phone for this project: a gray AE80, right?
Well....only if you think you need some practice....
Terry
How's that for mold? I hope to get time to clean it with the bleach tonite or tomorrow. I'll probably do the inside with some 409 or ammonia based window cleaner.
Josh
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh170/guitar1580/032.jpg)
Quote from: ae_collector on January 12, 2011, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: Kidphone on January 12, 2011, 09:52:37 AM
Jorge....Finlover....cars not fish. Greg pops on now and then. He is the master of plastics. His work is top notch. ....Doug
No...I think it was fishlover.
(Jorge is in a quirky mood these days...needs another sanding project)
Terry
No no no--it's fishLIVER, which is a reference to my practice of coating each phone in cod liver oil to acheive a nice glossy finish. It doesn't smell that great, though. Kidphone and I are developing a less odoriferous product called "Scales So Soft", which can be used on both bakelite and pet goldfish.
Seriously, it's my New Year's resolution to be more of a participant on the forum than I was last year. Now that I'm getting more comfortable playing bass again I'll be able to devote a little more time to my OTHER hobby, and to my "phony" friends!
P.S. Our band, tentatively called "3 Chord Rodeo", has it's first gig next month at a dance hall called The Happy Cow--wish me luck!
I always knew there was something fishy about you. ;D ;D ;D
Welcome back, stranger. Or should I say, partner?
I've been away for a few days and trying to catch up on things here. Thanks Brinybay, Guitar, and Jorge for the compliments on my 5302. Once I got the mold off it wasn't in too bad of shape. I put the nicest G1 that I had on it for the pictures for Russ Cowell's TCI Singing Wires article. The rest is pretty much what I learned here on the Forum, and mostly from Jorge and his great pictorials. Novus 2, Meguiar's Carnauba Wax, and some Turtle Wax F21. I like the Meguiar's Carnauba over some of the others that I tried only because it smells so good. If they made syrup that taste as good as that smells I would put it on ice cream. And no, I wasn't a paste eater when I was a kid.
Hahaha.... well I gotta admit, I ate some paste in second grade, but not as much as my schoolmate. It tasted like spearmint.
I've always used Mother's Californie Gold on the phones, because it lasts forever on a car, and does a nice job with no smearing. I know what you mean about the smell. The Calif. Gold smells like cotton candy.
Also, I bleached the mold off of mine in the pic, and polished it up a little while the playoff games were on yesterday. It's scratched a little, but should look pretty nice when done.
Josh P
I had this happen to a date-matched 1952 WE 500 set that was stored in an area I thought was safe. After a few rounds of cleaning and it coming back, I figured I could kill it by putting the phone housing in the dishwasher. Bad move. Ohboy. During the last part of the sanitize cycle, the plastics warped to the point of being un-usable.
I replaced the housing with one from an ITT-Kellogg 500, so it all looks "casually OK," but the loss of the original material and intact whole was "a bummer" to put it mildly.
Bottom line: Do Not put soft plastic housings through the dishwasher on the high-temp cycle. (And it's been since forever-ago that I've made a mistake like that which had the effect of destroying viable equipment.)
Yikes, luckily I don't have a dishwasher or I'd probably be sticking everything under the sun in there too.
I cleaned the mold off of the 5302 pictured earlier, soaked it in some bleach water, and found a better place for it which is not in the basement. I used Dennis's idea of polishing up the bells. Sure makes 'em shine, too bad they are hidden for most of their lives.
Josh P
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh170/guitar1580/022-4.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh170/guitar1580/016-2.jpg)
I just now noticed that my old post became a sticky. Since the photos were lost to photobucket, I'll re-post them here.
I'm wondering if that is really mold, or is actually butyric acid leaching from the Tenite?
If it's Butyric acid, it would be greasy or waxy, and cleans off with aqueous ammonia or mineral spirits. It might also give off a vomit odor.
I think SUnset2 has the culprit nailed down.
D/P
Brasso will remove it fast and easy...Doug
with me, I'd just wash the dial plate in hot soapy water. using dishwasher power, that works the best for me. if that doesn't work, then I'd go on to the next suggested method... plastic cleans up quick and easy when washed and cared for correctly...
That was from 2011. I cleaned it with bleach back then and it has never returned. It's also not in the basement anymore.
I always thought it was white mold because of the damp location, but maybe it is the butyric acid. I've noticed the odor in some older 500s and 302s.
the basement would be the culprit.... dark and cold... wet and yucky! I try to keep my phones in my shed, or in the house... both places are climate controlled. still trying to get the shed insulated better... anyway, good for you that you got it cleaned...
High humidity is the biggest contributor to cellulose acetate deterioration, with high heat as the second contributor. Shrinking is the most common symptom, such as is seen in the corners on 302s. I've seen the but I also collect 16mm films, so I am dealing with acetate deterioration in all my hobbies. Good thing I don't collect screwdrivers.
Screwdrivers!! Yes, I have several that I have inherited from both of my grandfathers that would have been purchased in the 40's and 50's. It does have a unique smell. I'm relieved to find out that it probably isn't mold. If it isn't mold, why would the bleach work to prevent it from reappearing?
I realize this is an old thread, but it's new to me.
It is a type of bioplastic and can be deteriorated by micro-organisms. Moisture and warm temperatures usually enhance the activity of such organisms. Bleach will be a killer ;-)
The smell will occur after deterioration has released acetic or (worse!) butyric acid from the product. Some persons find drastic words to describe the smell of butyric acid.
Still there are quality screwdrivers made from cellulose-acetate-butyrate. It has unique, desirable properties
I usually use an oily solvent like paint thinner or WD-40 to clean my screwdriver handles (or telephones with the white crud. Water can accelerate deterioration. And acetone will melt them.