WE 302 Identification & Rewiring

[mblythe]

Hello! I have a Western Electric 302 that I'd like to get working. I hooked up a new line cord to L1/L2 terminals, and I do get a dial tone when I plug it in. However, the line is always open, regardless of whether the switch hook is depressed or not. So, I can't actually test the ringer or call receiving, because if this phone is plugged in, it's off the hook.

I've looked for wiring diagrams, but I'm unsure *which* 302 model I have. I've seen mention of models A through F, but I don't see any markings on my phone that make it clear which it is. I've attached a few photos.

Any pointers appreciated. Thanks!

[Alex G. Bell]

Hello! I have a Western Electric 302 that I'd like to get working. I hooked up a new line cord to L1/L2 terminals, and I do get a dial tone when I plug it in. However, the line is always open, regardless of whether the switch hook is depressed or not. So, I can't actually test the ringer or call receiving, because if this phone is plugged in, it's off the hook.

I've looked for wiring diagrams, but I'm unsure *which* 302 model I have. I've seen mention of models A through F, but I don't see any markings on my phone that make it clear which it is. I've attached a few photos.

Any pointers appreciated. Thanks!

It does not really matter.  Same BSP would apply to any of them. 

A, B, C and D had 2-conductor line cords.  E, F, G, H had 3 conductor line cords.
A & E were manual.
B & F had 1-0 & Operator 5HA dials.
C & G had "metropolitan" (letters & numbers 5HB dials.
D & H had 1-0 & JMRW party line 5HE dials.

Look to see whether the cradle switch contacts open when the plungers are pressed.  Also try lifting one ringer lead.  The ringer capacitor could be shorted.

BUT with 3 sets of switch contacts, H3 handset mounting marking and a 101B induction coil, you actually have a 304 set.  It should have 4-lead B2A ringer.  You need to wire it for bridged ringing.

[mblythe]

Thanks for the info! I only see two wires coming from the ringer, but it's very difficult to see around it near the bottom. It looks like the ringer is attached to the base with rivets? I'll see if I can figure out how to lift it and confirm the wire count.

When you say "lift one of the ringer leads", do you mean disconnect it from the screw terminal?

Apologies for my layman's grasp of the lingo

[TelePlay]

The ringer sits on a metal plate that is riveted to the base in a vibration cancelling grommet/rivet method.

If you back out the set screw (red circle) so that the ringer itself clears the set screw (you may have to gently pull back on the bracket that has the set screw to get the front/top of the ringer to clear that hold point) by lifting it up, away from the base, the bottom of the ringer frame can be pulled out of the bottom holding bracket (yellow box) and the ringer removed.

The riveted plate stays in place. Installation is the reverse of the above.

[Alex G. Bell]

Thanks for the info! I only see two wires coming from the ringer, but it's very difficult to see around it near the bottom. It looks like the ringer is attached to the base with rivets? I'll see if I can figure out how to lift it and confirm the wire count.

When you say "lift one of the ringer leads", do you mean disconnect it from the screw terminal?

Apologies for my layman's grasp of the lingo

You're welcome.

The front edge of the ringer frame, between the gongs should be marked "B1A",  "B2A" or something similar.  Once you find that marking there is little reason to remove it but the horizontal screw between the gongs keeps the ringer in the ringer mounting, which is isolated by rubber grommets from the base plate to prevent direct transmission of mechanical vibrations of the ringer motor to the desk top.  Avoid placing a lot of stress on the ringer and mounting since old dry rubber grommets can be damaged and are difficult to replace.

Yes, "lift" is a common term for temporarily disconnecting.  Search for a 304 BSP at http://telephonecollectors.info/  304s are intended for 2 party lines on which there is an electrical circuit path by which the parties can be identified for billing purposes, so there are various ringer wiring options which could be in place from its previous use.  You need to set it up for "bridged ringing"

[TelePlay]

If interested in the mount or if you need to replace the mount grommets (without drilling out the rivets), I posted this some time ago and recently added images of the mount with the rivets removed.

That post speaks for itself but how I did it produced a very tight, firm grommet replacement mount for 302 ringers with crumbling or missing rubber mounts.

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6853.msg78533#msg78533

There are other ways to "fix" this but after try several different ways, settled on this method. That post also explains why using a rubber washer cut in half to get it around the rivet under the plate may not be a long term fix.

This is an FYI  reply in case you need it but it does show the parts under the ringer and as removed.

[mblythe]

The ringer does indeed say B2A. I think I'll leave it in place to avoid tempting fate with crumbling grommets.

I'm off in search of wiring diagrams. I'll post again when I have more news.

Thanks everyone.

[mblythe]

As Alex recommended, I disconnected the red ringer wire from L1, but I can't get a dial tone without it. Touching it back to L1 brings back the dial tone.

Also, the switch contacts do open when I press down on the plungers. This actually does make the phone go silent, so that you can't hear the dial tone when it's depressed. However, it doesn't actually hang up the line. Even with the plungers depressed and no audible dial tone present, the line will still time out and go to a fast busy signal. The only way to reset it is to unplug it.

Any clues in that behavior?

[unbeldi]

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2762.msg126769#msg126769

Here is a topic that shows a circuit diagram and description of the 304 (vs. 302) in a manner that works today on individual lines.  It has the wire colors and terminals marked.   The ringing bridge is drawn detached (on left), it connects to the same L1 and L2 terminals as shown in the right-hand part. It might be good to disconnect all ringer wires at first and get the telephone working properly without it, and then connect the ringer as shown.

[Alex G. Bell]

As Alex recommended, I disconnected the red ringer wire from L1, but I can't get a dial tone without it. Touching it back to L1 brings back the dial tone.

Also, the switch contacts do open when I press down on the plungers. This actually does make the phone go silent, so that you can't hear the dial tone when it's depressed. However, it doesn't actually hang up the line. Even with the plungers depressed and no audible dial tone present, the line will still time out and go to a fast busy signal. The only way to reset it is to unplug it.

Any clues in that behavior?

Disconnecting the red ringer lead cannot make the phone go silent.  More than likely you are unable to correctly identify the red ringer lead from some other red lead and are disconnecting something else.  But without knowing what ringing configuration the phone is wired for it's impossible to say which lead to disconnect.  You may indeed need to remove the ringer from the mounting to successfully trace its leads.

The ringer has 4 wires.  The black, gray ("slate"), slate-red and red, but without knowing for which party the phone is wired it's impossible to say specifically which ones would open the ringer circuit.   However lifting all 4 at the same time certainly would.  Beware of lifting the other SL-RD lead from dial terminal R to the RR terminal of the 101B IND, although that would only affect dialing and should not have any effect on being able to speak or release the line.

As you no doubt noticed, there are 3 pairs of contacts.  1 pair (BR-BL & GN) opens the receiver circuit before either of the others disconnect the line.  This prevents a loud click being produced in the receiver when DC current through the line is interrupted.  It closes the receiver ckt after the line circuit is closed.  So the fact that you hear nothing with the buttons down proves that the receiver circuit is opening but nothing more.  Could there be a small piece of metallic debris lodged between the crimps where the cradle switch leads connect to the contact "springs" (blades)?

Did you find a circuit diagram?  Is it understandable?

One more detail I don't think you stated:  You can hear dial tone but can you speak?  i.e. is the transmitter active when the buttons are up?  Whether or not you can could reflect the presence of other wiring errors.

[mblythe]

I removed the bells from the ringer, which let me see the wires more clearly. I was able to fish out the red wire that I disconnected, and it's definitely the ringer wire. (see photo) Disconnected from L1, I cannot hear a dial tone. If I touch the red wire back to L1, the dial tone appears. Strange, eh? I'll have to check all the wiring on this thing for something screwy.

I did find a wiring diagram, plus the one unbeldi posted. Hopefully between the two of them, I can figure something out.

I actually haven't been able to test speaking. Because the circuit is always open, I can't call the phone. Also, the dial needs cleaning, so I can't reliably dial the number I mean to call yet 

[Alex G. Bell]

I removed the bells from the ringer, which let me see the wires more clearly. I was able to fish out the red wire that I disconnected, and it's definitely the ringer wire. (see photo) Disconnected from L1, I cannot hear a dial tone. If I touch the red wire back to L1, the dial tone appears. Strange, eh? I'll have to check all the wiring on this thing for something screwy.

Was the dial tone normal loudness?  If the ringer were connected in series with the speech circuit (seemingly the only way it could cause the effect you described) it would introduce a lot of loss in the circuit and the dial tone you hear would be at very low volume.

A related question:  When you replaced the line cord with a modular one (lead ends visible in your latest photo), what did you do with the YL and BK leads?  They should be insulated separately with tape and not connected.  A 304 set wired for party line service would have had a YL lead connection but you don't want to repeat that.  If you have a second line on the jack or a dial light transformer for a Trimline or Princess phone and connected the YL and BK leads that could be at least part of your problem.

I did find a wiring diagram, plus the one unbeldi posted. Hopefully between the two of them, I can figure something out.

I actually haven't been able to test speaking. Because the circuit is always open, I can't call the phone. Also, the dial needs cleaning, so I can't reliably dial the number I mean to call yet 

But you can call it and plug it in to answer the call.  Also, properly functioning telephones have a characteristic known as "sidetone" wherein you hear your own voice in the receiver when the phone is live.  So presence or absence of sidetone behind the dial tone would tell you whether the transmitter is working.

[mblythe]

Dial tone did seem a bit quiet, but not faint. For the new line I connected, red to L1, green to L2, yellow and black left unconnected.

I disconnected all four ringer wires, and now I get no dial tone at all. Think I'm going to have to just trace all connections, wire it according to the diagram, and see what happens then.

I also checked for debris around the switch leads and the paddle-like connectors with a dental pick and found nothing.

Off to rewire this sucker.

[Alex G. Bell]

Dial tone did seem a bit quiet, but not faint. For the new line I connected, red to L1, green to L2, yellow and black left unconnected.

I disconnected all four ringer wires, and now I get no dial tone at all. Think I'm going to have to just trace all connections, wire it according to the diagram, and see what happens then.

I also checked for debris around the switch leads and the paddle-like connectors with a dental pick and found nothing.

Off to rewire this sucker.

There's something very wrong with the wiring.  The ringer circuit normally has nothing to do with the speech circuit although in a 304 set for one of the parties the ringer provides a ground connection to the speech circuit so the CO can ID which party is calling for billing purposes.  However even when wired this way disconnecting the ringer would not prevent the speech circuit from functioning.

Might be interesting to make a list of the connections you find or mark up a copy of whichever one of the diagrams you're most comfortable with to have a record of what the original wiring was.

The paddle-like terminals on the ends of wires that fit under screw heads are called "spade tips".

[mblythe]

Progress! I rewired it according to the wiring diagram, and now everything works properly except the ringer. The switch hook actually opens and closes the line. I can answer the phone when it's called and converse with the caller. I do still need to clean the dial to fully test that, but it does dial. I just sometimes get the wrong number, because the dial gets hung up on the return trip which confuses the pulse-to-tone converter.

The only thing now is that it doesn't ring. I'll double-check the ringer wires, but it may be that it requires more juice than my Obi 100 can provide. I have it currently maxed out at a ring voltage of 85.

I got about half way through the rewiring when it dawned on me that I should be noting which wires I moved. There were several, including that hook switch 1 (GN-R) was not connected to L2 and hook switch 2 (Y) was not connected to L1.

Thanks everybody for your help. This community is fantastic and so giving of its experience and time.

I'll post again if I make any progress on the ringer.