Bell restoration question...

[vicvalis]

...Working on my WE 334-A subset, I spent the evening cleaning up the ringer. Looks good, pity most if it will be inside the case. I will be getting the bells nickel-plated (I will try myself, but my results have been only so-so in the past). Here's my question: what was used to cover the windings? On the outside there appears to be a thin black paper covering with with a mesh pattern (it's very thin and brittle, like old paper), though i assume this is actually fabric. Under it is a brown paper covering. It's not visible in the one picture I've included, but the black covering is disintegrating, and I'd like to replace it. I might get to go to the local fabric store this weekend, but before I go I was wondering if anyone knew what was used, and what it was called/ just to save me some time in my hunting.

[Kenton K]

I usually leave as. One can never make it like original.

-kk

[Greg G.]

Can't help on what material was used to cover the coils, but it'll be interesting to hear from someone who's done this level of refurbishment.  Personally, I wouldn't mess with it as long as it works, it looks like too much detail to be fun, but that's only because my preferred level of restoration is just basic cleaning, polishing, painted if needed, and only enough technical application to get it working like it was intended.  If your efforts to nickle plate only produce so-so results, I would leave the bells alone.  They didn't issue them nickle-plated and they look fine just polished.

But, sounds like you like to go a little deeper, and that's ok, whatever rotates your dial.

[dencins]

The insulating material on the coil is probably shellac cloth but I have never found a source for it.  The closest I have found is "fish paper" used by radio restorers.

Early subsets with outside bells like the 334 or 295 were nickel plated.

Dennis Hallworth

[dencins]

Here is a Popular Mechanics article from 1948 about making coils for a motor.  They use cotton cloth and shellac to insulate the coils.  Probably messy since they put the cloth on while wet with shellac but the process is probably similar how Western Electric made coils. 

Popular Mechanics article from 1948 about making coils for a motor

My thoughts are the ringer coil was wrapped in something like kraft paper after winding then someone got to wrap it in shellac soaked cloth.  This was probably put in a tray filled with coils.  My guess is the tray was put in an oven to reduce drying time then the resistance number was stamped on it.

Dennis Hallworth



EDIT: shortened link

[vicvalis]

On the one hand i was worried the stuff might continue to flake off over the years and cause damage (depending on if the box is mounted with the bells up or down), but then I realized that A) the insides are pretty robust and have survived for 80+ years just fine already, and B) it's going to be on the inside, and if i wanted to take it to the extreme, I'd need to make stamps or stencils for the makings on the wrapper. Not sure if I'm up for that. It'll come down to what i feel like doing. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

[vicvalis]

Some years back I purchased an old Hamilton Beach milkshake mixer. Turns out it was their first model. I fixed it up so that it will run, but was never satisfied because it was basically a just a cleaning. Didn't learn as much about it as i had wanted. Ten years later I lucked into a second, later model. That one I tore apart, at least everything i could open without destroying the thing. Ended up having to replace motor windings (hint: Hamilton Beach motors were essentially made exactly the same for a century, and their appliances designed around the same motor. Used the motor windings from a 1950s 3-speed hand mixer in a 1920s milkshake mixer). Anyhow, more satisfying to really get in and touch and clean everything, and understand how it worked. So I'm still on the fence about whether to replace the wrappings on the buzzer on this subset, but since I'm in no hurry I might just go ahead, even though nobody will ever see it. I like the challenge.

[TelePlay]

Here is a Popular Mechanics article from 1948 about making coils for a motor.

Interesting, thanks Dennis.

Also, very interesting, were the pages and pages of ads below the article, and the prices. 1948 was quite different from today. A lot of that is what I remember from my early childhood and school days. PM was one of the greatest.

[Sargeguy]

Do you have a junk ringer you can experiment with first?  Careful you don't cut through any wires while removing the cover!

[vicvalis]

The junk ringer has no coverings anymore, and the wrappings on the good one have half disintegrated already. If I do it, I'll probably be able to flake them off with my finger. The paper wrapping beneath the fabric looks to be disintegrating a bit too, but otherwise looks to be in one piece. They should protect the wiring.

[poplar1]

The gongs should be on the bottom for a 334A bell box and at the top for a 333A wall phone. Note that the hinges are on the right side on both, and the screw that holds the cover shut is on the left side for both. Therefore, the baseplate--which is the same for both models--has holes on both sides for the hinges and the cover screw.

[Sargeguy]

Here is a pic that shows the difference:

[vicvalis]

I've seen pictures of the 334a with the gongs on the bottom, and I think the wiring schematic shows them that way too, so that was what I was planning. I had noticed the duplication of holes in the cover frame, but didn't think about that until it was mentioned.

jeff

[vicvalis]

Some photos of the ringer at this point... rather than try and remove the old coverings, I wrapped the old coverings in place with new fishpaper glues with water-activated fishpaper. Didn't like the texture, so wrapped that in bookbinder's cloth. Not perfect, but pretty good. Next, i need to test it and make adjustments. It was fun.

[dencins]

Good find using the bookbinder's cloth.  Looks much better than the fish paper since it has the weave lines. 

Will you be stamping the resistance numbers on it?  If so what font will you be using?

Dennis Hallworth