500 Base Refurbishing?

[boynblue27]

What do you guys think about respraying a 500 base.  The ID C/D 500 date code is barely visible but if I decide to do this would it hurt the value to make a stencil for renumbering the date code.  All the rest of the parts of the phone are a match including the housing, dial, and handset and I have successfully removed all the discoloration and its back to its original color now.   There is some light rust around the feet and I am certain I can remove it safely without hurting the rubber feet. (dremel?)  If anyone else has done this or If there is a topic on this please redirect me thanks.

Mike

[ka1axy]

I have several 500 and 565 with rust around the rubber feet. As the "rubber" degrades, it releases a corrosive substance, which will continue to rust the base if the problem is not addressed.

I started by ordering some replacement feet off Amazon. Cheap, almost exact copies (except they're smooth instead of radially grooved on the bottom). Amazon part B01HKSML6K.

Next, I removed the housing, handset, dial and line cord from my phone, leaving only the switchhook, network and ringer on the base. Used a drillpress to drill out the rivets from the inside. I put a drop of TAP MAGIC (insert your favourite cutting fluid here) on the rivet and a 7/32" bit to remove the upset portion of the rivet, stopping before I drilled into the base. The feet then twist off with a pair of pliers.

Removing the rust is a lot easier if you have a drillpress and a simple frame to hold your phone inverted. I made mine out of scrap 3/4" underlayment plywood. No need to get fancy. It's screwed together, so I can change to dimensions for the 565 sets.

Chuck a small wire wheel in the drillpress and lower it onto the rusted areas. This will rapidly remove most of the rust. Touch up as needed by hand.



Now that the rust is gone, it's time to repaint. I'm using Rustoleum flat black. Rustoleum seems not to be too picky about a little remaining rust, but it takes a few days to dry. The wooden frame keeps the phone level and makes it easy to paint.

That's as far as I have gotten. I'm planning to screw the feet on, using a hex nut with a captive star washer on the inside of the phone, with a machine screw coming up through the rubber foot.

[AL_as_needed]

What do you guys think about respraying a 500 base.  The ID C/D 500 date code is barely visible but if I decide to do this would it hurt the value to make a stencil for renumbering the date code.

Mike

There are many flavors when it comes to replacing / repairing parts vs value of a given piece. One option may be to put some clear petroleum jelly over the stamping, while the rest can be carefully prepaired and repainted.

[TelePlay]

I prefer to leave the bottom of the base as found, as original when removed from service.

If there is rust around the feet, I use a Dremel wire cup brush to remove the loose surface rust.

I then use a cotton cue tip to apply a "rust converter" (not rust remover) which converts the remaining, imbedded iron oxide (rust) to a hard, black phosphate mineral.

The mineral is a rock hard protective surface preventing further oxidation and does not need paint. Not NOS looking but it leaves the base in its original condition preserving its originality.

Here's what I get from my local automotive store for about $5. Other brands are out there. Unlike rust remover, which leaves bare metal that requires primer and paint, the converter is clean the surface of loose rust, apply, let dry and that's it.

From: https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Converter-FAQs-W48.aspx

"Rust Converter FAQ's

What is Rust Converter?

Rust Converter, a water-based primer, contains two active ingredients: Tannic acid and an organic polymer. The first ingredient, tannic acid, reacts with iron oxide (rust) and chemically converts it to iron tannate, a dark-colored stable material. Tannins are a group of water- and alcohol-soluble natural products extracted from fruits, trees and grasses. The second active ingredient is a proprietary organic polymer that provides a protective primer layer. The overall chemical reaction converts rust into a stable, black protective polymeric coating that serves as an excellent primer for both oil and epoxy based paints.

How is Rust Converter different than a rust remover?

Rather than removing rust, a rust converter mixes chemically with rust to create a black inert substance that can be painted over, concealing the existence of any rust and preventing further corrosion.

What is the shelf life for Rust Converter?

Rust Converter has a shelf life of 9 months. We rotate our stock frequently to assure that the freshest batches reach our customers.

What objects can I use Rust Converter on?

Rust Converter can be used on any rusty iron or steel object. It can be used on vehicles, trailers, fences & gates, iron railings and staircases, sheet metal, cast iron, outsides of tanks, lawn equipment, mower decks, farm equipment, tractors to name just a few. It will not work on aluminum, copper, stainless steel or galvanized metal. As a general rule, Rust Converter is a good solution to fixing rust on items you would consider painting.

How do I prepare the surface for application?

Good surface preparation will enable the Rust Converter to work effectively and leads to a high quality end result. You will want to remove large rust and scale particles with a stiff bristled brush, hammer or sandpaper. The object of this step is to get any loose or flaking rust off as it does not provide a stable surface. The point is not to remove all the rust (this defeats the purpose of Rust Converter) as Rust Converter chemically bonds to the rust and seals it in. Rust Converter cannot penetrate grease or oil, so clean and degrease the surface first, then let it dry. This step ensures that other surface contaminants will not interfere with the reaction of the rust converter on the rusted surface. If the surface is subject to salt water spray for deicing salts, rinse the surface thoroughly with water, and allow it to dry prior to applying Rust Converter.

How is Rust Converter applied?

For best results, apply Rust Converter with a brush or a roller. Use a brush for smaller applications and a roller for larger surfaces. It can also be sprayed on, but we recommend using an airless sprayer."

[ka1axy]

Well, the first one's finished and I can't say I'm unhappy with it. My phones are "users", not museum quality restorations. That being said, the flat black Rustoleum looks like it belongs there, and I wonder if WE would have dealt with the issue much differently (except, pehaps for riveting new "rubber" feet on).

I ended up using 3/8" 6-32 philips machine screws through the feet and nylon insert nuts on the inside of the base. A lot easier than finding the perfect rivets, and easy to remove if I do.

The wood frame makes things *much* easier. If you're messing with the bottom of a phone base, a holder like this makes life much more pleasant.

I do have some of the rust stabilizer on order but it won't be here until next week. I'll save one of the 565s to try it out on.l

[Kellogg Kitt]

"rust converter" (not rust remover) which converts the remaining, imbedded iron oxide (rust) to a hard, black phosphate mineral.

Interesting.  I had never heard of this product.  I will have to give it a try.

[Kellogg Kitt]

In response to OP's question from 2011, I would say that for a phone with all original parts, do not paint the bottom, as that would diminish the value of "all original."

However, for phones that are in daily use or that have already been refurbished with mismatching parts, it might be OK to repaint if the bottom is in very bad condition, but it would be nice to preserve the date stamps and another markings if possible.

I have seen plenty of factory refurbished phones that have had their bottoms painted, and I do not like the look of them.

[HowardPgh]

If I was drilling or doing any grinding on a phone base, I would remove the ringer. You run the risk of getting metal filings in the magnetic gap of the ringer.

[ka1axy]

I then use a cotton cue tip to apply a "rust converter" (not rust remover) which converts the remaining, imbedded iron oxide (rust) to a hard, black phosphate mineral.

I tried it on one of my 565 bases (the plated steel was never going to look like new, so I figured I'd use it as the test case). I have to say, it does look like the rust has been stabilised. Time will tell, of course, but I'm not unhappy with the result. Thanks, TelePlay, for the tip! (looking at the pic, I probably could have been a bit more aggressive with the wire brush)

[ka1axy]

I tried it on one of my 565 bases (the plated steel was never going to look like new, so I figured I'd use it as the test case). I have to say, it does look like the rust has been stabilised. Time will tell, of course, but I'm not unhappy with the result. Thanks, TelePlay, for the tip! (looking at the pic, I probably could have been a bit more aggressive with the wire brush)

I used a bunch of wooden handled "Q-tip" applicators. The liquid goes on fairly thick but thins out as it works. I think a brush would have put far more liquid on than necessary. The chemistry starts working almost immediately, and so you end up changing Q-tips for each application (and sometime more frequently) so as not to pollute the container with black material.

[TelePlay]

. . . you end up changing Q-tips for each application (and sometime more frequently) so as not to pollute the container with black material.

I use 1 ounce plastic medicine cup with a lot of different stuff to avoid that problem. They come in sleeves of 100 for about $5.90 on eBay, with free shipping. Search "medicine cups" to find them.

[ka1axy]

Well, all five "rubber" footed sets have had their feet replaced. I'm very happy with the rust stabiliser product, we will see how it holds up, of course, but it seems to stabilise the rust and then harden with some sort of clear overcoat.

Since I wasn't ready to search for exact replacement feet or rivets, I'm happy with the result. Not a true restoration, but I haven't done anything which would preclude attachment of more authentic feet and rivets by someone else. Aside from the rust mitigation, everything's completely reversible. The Amazon feet are almost a perfect match for the old ones (minus the recess in the center), and look close to the original when sitting on the desk.

I have heard the material used for the ribbed feet referred to as "neoprene", but I'm not sure that's completely accurate. I have a lot of other vintage equipment with "rubber" feet, and, though they have hardened with age, they have not generated rust on the adjacent metal like the WE feet have. That material was certainly a mistake on WE's part.

[HarrySmith]

Nice work. The rust stabilizer seems to have worked well. Personally I would have used slotted screws, not Philips head. More authentic.

[ka1axy]

Good point. I generally prefer Philips, but this is a case where slotted would have been consistent with the other screws in the device. Oh, well...

[TelePlay]

This is a good topic on rivets and this reply has size and source information, should you want to try rivets.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18373.msg189175#msg189175