I'm putting together a 202 for a lady friend who fell in love with the only one I had and wanted to buy it. As much as I'm a sucker for sweet talk, I didn't want to part with mine.
I bought a 202/D1 base and E1 handset from ebay a week ago. I have a dial that seems to fit, but need to know for sure if it is a proper dial. The mounting screws seem to line up ok. If not, I need to know what dial to get. I'm also going to try my hand at repainting it.
Boiled down, what I need to know is:
If this dial will work, what screws do I need to mount it? Are they available at hardware stores, or are they vintage screws I'll have to find somewhere?
If it isn't the right one, what dial do I need?
What is the proper way to dismantle the cradle and prepare for painting?
I have some cloth-covered reproduction cords, but I've lost track of what part they go to. One is obviously a spade-to-mod line cord, not sure what the other two are. They appear to be identical except that one is black and one is brown, except that the black one is thicker.
The base obviously needs a leather bottom, so I want to order that and line cords at the same time.
Of course it will need a subset, but that part's fairly easy.
Is there a trick to getting that steel band that holds the leather cover in place w/o the ends overlapping?
Greg:
You have a #6 dial which will probably work, but we need to see just which #6 it is. If it has terminals for Y,BK,BB,R and W, (Not in that order), you should be ok. The D1 base (202) was designed for a #4 or #5 dial, but a #6 will electrically work, but has a slightly higher body than the 4 or 5. This means that the top edge of the dial body will be about 1/8 to 1/4 inch higher than the recess that it goes into. No biggie.
The dial takes a special screw that I have a couple hundred of, and I can send you 3 of them. I don't remember the exact size/thread, but I think it's a #4/40 but I can check when I get home tonight. You will need a couple of 5-1/2" wires with spade tips to jumper between the hookswitch and the dial, which I can send to you in the same envelope.
The connections are:
Wall to Subset:
Red to L1
Green to L2
Subset end of deskset cord:
Red to R
Green to GN
Black to BK
Yellow to L2/Y
Deskset cord inside the D1:
Red to R on the dial
Black to BK on the dial
Green to GN on the hookswitch
Yellow to Y on the hookswitch
Handset cord inside the D1:
Red to R on the dial (along with the red line cord)
Black to BK on the dial (along with the black line cord)
White to W on the dial
(2) 5-1/2" jumper wires inside the D1:
One wire from BK on the hookswitch to Y on the dial
One wire from W on the hookswitch to BB on the dial
That should do it.
A couple more comments:
Removing the cradle from the lower body of the phone is not a good idea. I suggest you paint without tearing it down any further. Removing the T-bar type hookswitch plunger is much easier, but prone to having some difficulty getting it back together on the first try. Also, there are an upper and lower busing in the shaft housing that might crack when removed. Replacements are available at a reasonable price if you wind up in trouble. I would not take the hookswitch pile-up off the base of the phone unless you have done it before, and have taken detailed photos of the pile-up. They look simple enough, but they do present problems when putting them back together in the exact sequence. Better to wrap it with masking tape.
As to line cords:
You only need a cord with two wires to go from the wall to the subset, and that is usually a modular plug on a cord that has a red and a green.
The cord between the D1 and the subset needs 4 conductors (Spades on each end), and for Western Electric 202's that would be a cord with red, green, yellow, and black. Each end needs about 5" of free slack beyond the "S" hooks.
The handset needs three conductors with spades on each end. The subset end will need about 5" of free ends beyond the "S" clip, and the handset end needs about one inch free beyond the stay hook.
Western Electric handset cord wires are usually red, black, and white. The inside of the handset where the cord mounts beneath the transmitter are marked R,B, and W accordingly.
The dust cap may have to be removed from the dial, as well. The BSPs called for it to be removed because of clearance issues inside the base, but I've never tried one out to see if it's really necessary. Just something to keep in mind.
I've found the easiest way to get the retainer back in the base plate is to seat the back edge first, then, with the free ends both up, line them up together (end to end) and push them straight down together. I find it's nearly impossible to get them to seat when they're already seated and overlapped.
Come to think of it, mine has a #6 dial in it too. The numbers on mine are 6A 4-53, the other dial says 6U41 8-73. I'm pretty sure she won't be period fussy about it. I'm in the market for a #4 for mine, haven't found one yet, but I haven't been looking very hard. There was one on ebay not too long ago that I missed by only a few dollars.
Here's a pic of the dial and how they both sit in the base. I'll refrain from dismantling the base any further, didn't want to do that anyway. I'll just order a complete set of cords for it. The spade-to-mod I'm sure I was going to use for my subset, it's still sitting on my work bench rigged with station wire/
Quote from: bingster on April 04, 2011, 08:33:22 PM
The dust cap may have to be removed from the dial, as well. The BSPs called for it to be removed because of clearance issues inside the base, but I've never tried one out to see if it's really necessary. Just something to keep in mind.
It seems to seat well enough with the dust cap on. My other one has a #6 and the dust cap is on it.
Quote from: bingster on April 04, 2011, 08:33:22 PM
I've found the easiest way to get the retainer back in the base plate is to seat the back edge first, then, with the free ends both up, line them up together (end to end) and push them straight down together. I find it's nearly impossible to get them to seat when they're already seated and overlapped.
That's the way I've been trying it, but it keeps popping out along the opposite side. I'll mess with it when I get a new cover for it.
I think that is a switchboard dial. Does it turn at 20 pulses per second or 10?
Quote from: Kenny C on April 05, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
I think that is a switchboard dial. Does it turn at 20 pulses per second or 10?
I can't count that fast!
Brinybay - send your base plate and retaining ring to Dennis Hallworth (Decins) for recovering. He does a beautiful job for less than $10.
Chuck
Greg,
What are the terminal markings on the back of the dial? You will need to have W,Y,BK,BB, R for it to work in a 202 without modification. (Take a look at your other #6 in a 202 to compare it to.)
Also, if it is a switchboard dial, it would pulse at 20 pulses per second and return twice as fast as a regular dial. I don't think it is a switchboard dial since it does not have the switchboard finger stop. If it is a 20 pps dial, it will not work on most systems, since most cannot count that fast either. If it goes at regular speeds, it might be for some other application. I see a BL terminal on it so it might not be what you want without some wiring mods.
Somewhere there is a BSP that has a chart of all the #6 dial models and their applications, but I can't lay my hands on it.
-Bill
I can't read the darn things Bill. I have to take pictures and look at them close up. Hopefully these turned out better. I reduced the flash and put in macro mode. I uploaded them w/o resizing them, so if you click on the image, then click on it again, it will come up in the original close-up. It looks like BL, BK, R, BB, W. It returns at the same speed as my other #6.
I think you have a dial that was used in a speakerphone application, I found the document I was looking for, but a 6U is not listed, but the diagram of the switch pile-up is listed. You probably also have a G terminal on it too. I am not 100% certain without sitting down and drawing it out, but I think it can be made to work, but a little wiriing change would need to be made from the standard wiring. Reason being is that the regular #6 dial is made to switch the receiver out of the circuit during switching, and I think this dial is one like on the model 500 phone where the receiver is shorted out during dialing, rather than switched off.
I think I'll just get a different dial. With the phone show coming up, a #5 or a regular #6 shouldn't be that hard to find. And if I find a #4, I'll use that one and switch out the #6 I'm using now.
What's this document you have, can you upload it?
FWIW, I didn't find any info on a #6U dial either. All the docs I looked at only go as far as a #6S.
Briny, when you get a chance can you take the dust cover off and get a pic of the contacts? If you want to see one of the docs I looked at go to the TCI Library and look up 501-162-100.
Doug Pav
Attaching the pdf file for BSP 501-162-100
Quote from: Wallphone on April 05, 2011, 07:31:01 AM
FWIW, I didn't find any info on a #6U dial either. All the docs I looked at only go as far as a #6S.
Briny, when you get a chance can you take the dust cover off and get a pic of the contacts? If you want to see one of the docs I looked at go to the TCI Library and look up 501-162-100.
Doug Pav
Here they are. If at all possible, I want to use this dial for her phone, unless it's some super-rare and valuable dial.
Bill,
You made the comment:
"Removing the T-bar type hookswitch plunger is much easier, but prone to having some difficulty getting it back together on the first try."
I am restoring a 202 and the T-bar is stuck where it does not come all of the way up when I take the handset off of the cradle. I have to lift it with my hand to get a dialtone. Do you have any suggestions about how to fix this? Should I dissassemble the whole phone and try to lube up what I can or maybe replace some spring that is in there? I obviously haven't taken it apart yet so I don't know what I have to play with there. Have you or anyone else ever had that problem and if so, what did anyone do so that the T-bar comes all of the way up without manual effort?
Dan
There are 2 Rubber bushings inside that hold the spring in place, The may have dry-rotted and fallen out over the years.So now you dont have enough tension on the spring to push it up. That was what was wrong with mine.
Just a guess.
I've also had bushings that had contract a bit, which binds the shaft, preventing it from lifting properly. A piece of sandpaper wrapped around a small dowel or pencil and run through the bushings enough to increase their inside diameter just a bit will correct that particular problem.
Hi All;
I have a #6 Dial in either my candlestick or my D1.. And I think it is in my D1, If you need any Pictures of Attaching a #6 Dial, I can take some for you.. To help you see where thing go and how they connect... Also Look in my Previous entries under my Candlestick and/or my D1, where there are some pictures of the inside..
THANK YOU Marty
djtownsend:
Dan,
The problem is most likely the upper and lower bushings that the shaft of the T-bar travels through. Either they have gummed up or given up the ghost entirely. The way to disassemble it is to take the screw off the bottom end of the shaft and carefully remove the hard fiber protrusions that operate the hookswitch. Take some pictures or make a good drawing of the position of the fiber pieces before removing them.
Once that screw is out and the fiber pieces are off, you can just pull the t-bar and plunger all the way out from the top. There, you will see the two bushings with the spring sandwiched in-between. (The lower bushing may hang up inside the shaft and not fall out on its own.) The bushings are made of either a brittle hard rubber or some were made of the same fiber material that those hookswitch pieces are made of. They can crack and fall apart. The brass shaft could also be corroded, and you will need to clean it with steel wool accordingly to slide smoothly.
Replacement bushings can be acquired from a collector in Arizona, who I think still has them. I think a couple of others sell them too. Oldphoneworks may also have them. I have seen the replacements made of both plastic and brass.
It is kind of tricky to get the bottom bushing seated right at the bottom of the housing. I am speaking from memory here, but the upper bushing is placed on the top part of the shaft, and the spring is slid on after that. I would not use any lubrication. It should slide easily without. Then just slide the bar and shaft, along with the spring, down through the housing and make sure the seating of the bushings, the travel and the sliding of the shaft all feel right.
Put those fiber tips back on along with the screw and you should be done.
It took me a couple of tries to get things seated correctly when I did it.
I need some input on painting this. The base really isn't that bad, but the cradle area could use some attention. If this were your phone and you were putting it together for someone who isn't going to be real picky, what would you do with it? I may be answering my own question, but I'm inclined to just touch up the cradle area, particularly the ears and t-bar. May not even have to remove the t-bar because the paint is only worn on top, underneath it's ok, it's just a little dirty. The base I think would clean up nicely just buffing it a bit.
If you remove the T-Bar, you might have a problem with those pesty bushings. They tend to be brittle and when removed, the tend to break into pieces, which means you are then into getting replacements and yada yada.
I would just mask it off and do a little rattle can paint job around the cradle area. Make sure to mask off the shaft part of the t-bar so that paint does not get on it to the extent the hook switch will not operate.
I think that's what I'd do, too. You might find though, that once you've got the cradle repainted, it'll look so nice that you'll want to do the bottom, too.