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"Phone Wiring Problem"

Started by mmd, February 10, 2011, 01:08:43 AM

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Phonesrfun

One more thing about the splitter:

The two different kinds of splitters I mentioned look outwardly almost identical.  The kind that takes a two-line input and splits it into two separate jacks; one for each line, will often have a number "1" and a number "2" embossed on the front under the output jacks.  That's the kind you don't want.

You want the kind that takes a single input and splits them one-for-one on two or more outputs.

After thinking about it, I'll bet that there is nothing at all wrong with your 302, and if you were to reconnect the ringer and hook it back up to the Vonage router (ATA), with no splitters, but all by itself, you would have no problems at all.

Try that.
-Bill G

AE_Collector

Quote from: Phonesrfun on February 13, 2011, 02:11:57 AM
The two different kinds of splitters I mentioned look outwardly almost identical.  The kind that takes a two-line input and splits it into two separate jacks; one for each line,

We call those "Two line Adapter's" as opposed to splitters. The ones we always see here just have a black dot on the "line 2" jack and sometimes it is just a "Sharpie" dot. A two line adapter pulls a second line out of the second pair in a phone jack and moves it to the centre pins of one of the jacks in the adapter so you could plug two pots phones into it that are on two seperate phone lines coming out of a single wall jack.

This type of adapter usually only has 2 pins in each of its jacks where as a splitter usually has 4 pins on each side.

Terry

Phonesrfun

I haven't seen the two line adapters with a dot, but it makes sense.  I was struggling with trying to figure out the name of it too.  Two line adapter makes perfect sense.

One thing I do know is that if you go to Radio Shack and want a splitter, the clerks there don't have a clue as to the difference, and if you just go to any store that has phone accessories, like a Wal-Mart or some other place, you have to look at the packages really carefully to make sure you are getting the right thing.

-Bill G

mmd

On the original post, the phone was wired directly to the ATA..  The splitter I used later was the one that came with my old "Sega MegaModem"..  It's just a regular 2-pin splitter..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

Brandon,

OK, well this has to be frustrating to you, so please hang in there.


You mentioned in another post:
Quote from: mmd on February 10, 2011, 12:41:26 PM
Hmm, the wires are there in the plug and the cord, but are cut in the phone, but definitely aren't shorting to anything, they are cut flush to the cloth...

Check very closely, even with a magnifying glass if necessary to make sure that the orange and black wire stubs which are cut flush to the cloth don't have any of their tinsel frayed and  hanging out and periodically touching eash other.  Those tinsel wires have a habbit of having some frayed ends that may come in contact with the other.

I know we are grasping at some straws here, but do check that.  Take the end of a knife or small tipped screw driver and see if by just touching the ends of the yellow and black stubs if that makes the problem occur.  From what you have been describing, the second pair wires has to be the source of the problem.

If that doesn't solve it, then perhaps someone else can jump in and add their expertise.
-Bill G

mmd

They aren't touching anything.  Especially since on the splitter, there's no pins to even connect the 3rd and 4th wires.

But, I might have found the problem..  In the ATA there appears to have been some what looks like induction coils that are physically burnt.  I'm going to try replacing them and see what happens..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

Wow, good luck with that.  Maybe I mis-read what you said, but it sounds like you are going to replace parts in the ATA itself.   

I would think that the Vonage ATA would need to be sent back to Vonage and the wole unit swapped out, as opposed to changing parts within the ATA.  I would not think replacement parts for the ATA would be even remotely available.
-Bill G

mmd

Vonage doesn't have a warranty for the ATA cause you technically purchase it then it's your problem..

The parts are rather standard electrical parts.  And after looking inside, I'm surprised it even has the ooph to ring a WE302..  It doesn't even have a capacitor rated high enough in voltage to handle a full ring voltage.

I might replace those too with better parts.
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

mmd

Ok I have been using the MTA now for a while with the new parts, no problems now, seems to be working fine.  I also used a better PSU, and the ringer is louder too.
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

GG



When dealing with weak ringing power supplies, what I do is:

Example, Dutch PTT Ericsson (also Standard Elec and Dutch Philips; electrically they are all the same): 1000 ohm ringer coil (2x500), 1.0 uF capacitor. 

Use tel set schematic or physical examination to find which terminals to use for this.  Add a 1.0 uF capacitor in series with the ringer by screwing it down to the correct terminals.  The result is two 1 uF capacitors in series (the existing one plus the one I added), which drops the total capacitance to 0.5 uF, which is the equivalent of swapping out the existing capacitor in the set with a 0.5 uF capacitor.   

Next, loosen the screws on the bell gongs and rotate them inward while supplying ringing voltage.  At some point the ringer will ring consistently though at a lower volume level. 

If doing this to a WE 500, the arrangement would be:  tape and store the yellow wire from the base cord, or more it to the L1 terminal.  Connect the additional capacitor between L1 and G terminals.  Adjust ringer gongs and bias spring, while testing at different positions of ring volume control.  It may be that the result does not enable ringing in all positions of the volume control. 

On AE ringers commonly found in AE 41 and AE 80, there is a tiny screw on the back of the pivot of the clapper assembly, that can be loosened somewhat to reduce the travel distance of the clapper between the bells, which helps considerably at getting a viable ring after doing this modification.  (Or if you have a powerful ring voltage, tighten the screw somewhat to increase the travel distance of the clapper, rotate the bell gongs outward, and it will ring loudly enough to wake the dead.)

Some folks here do this by using a resistor instead of a capacitor, but I'm not certain what values to use or how to calculate them effectively for all the usual cases (if I had a decade box I could certainly find out). 




dsk

Here: http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=111
They use 3k3 resistors to do that job.

I guess the cap. solution is better, The power lost in the resistor is turned to heat, the cap will not be hot!

If you have several phones on  a line the one with highest current, seems to take the power from the others.
This may be an issue to get in balance.

If it is possible to adjust the clapper to a shorter move, the magnetism will have less loss. A move of the clapper of about 3 mm should be OK. All springs, bias springs etc take power from the ringer. The bells should be adjusted to almost touch the clapper in its end position.

dsk