what polish to use ?

[TelePlay]

I realize this is going a bit off topic but it is related and there is just so much stuff already on the forum about many different ways to restore a phone with respect to color changes and polishing.

Instead of bleach for some colors, I use the hair salon developer (peroxide) at the 30 vol strength.

Just did a '59 pink 500 shell this morning. Cleaned with soapy water, dried, put it into a plastic bag with about 2/3 of developer, smooshed it around the housing and put it into the sun. about 10  minutes a side re-smooshing the peroxide on the plastic each time I rotated the housing 90 degrees. Washed off the peroxide it the housing looks NOS.

Went from a salmon red to orange to a light pink in one treatment. This before and after photo taken in poor light does not show the change well. Took the housing out into bright indirect sun light and it looks marvelous. Just saying, it's an alternative to lightening some dark colors.

[Pourme]

When doing the bleach method, after few hours in the sun, do you remove the housing from the mixture overnight & put it back in the next sunlight, or just it in the mixture overnight?

[TelePlay]

When doing the bleach method, after few hours in the sun, do you remove the housing from the mixture overnight & put it back in the next sunlight, or just it in the mixture overnight?

If you mean chlorine bleach as in Clorox, there is no sun light involved that I know of. A large bucket of bleach water would be hard to expose to sun light. You just leave the plastic part in for the period of time needed to lighten the plastic (check it every half hour or so and leave it in until happy with the results, rinse it off and dry.

If you mean peroxide to "bleach" or lighten plastic, you put the already cleaned and sanded (defects removed) into a 2 gallon zip lock bag and add the peroxide. Move the wet insides of the bag all over the phone to make sure the developer covers the phone. Then place the bag in direct sunlight rotating the bag every 10 minutes and when rotating, move the wet insides all over the phone to make sure their are no hot spots or dry spots (to prevent mottling of the color). Put the phone down in direct sun light 90 degrees from its previous position for 10 minutes and then repeat this step. Do this as long as it takes to get the color lightening you want. No need to over do it but if you take it out too soon, you have to do this a second time.

When it is the color you want, take it out of the bag, rinse it off with soapy water, rinse off the soap and dry. Then polish it as needed.

It has been discussed and experimented with in other topics. Peroxide without sunlight (UV rays) does not work very well, if at all. Some time ago, I put two handset caps in a small bag and let it sit in room light, not direct sun light. Nothing happened over 6 hours. I then put the bag in sun light and I remember seeing bubbles forming which was the UV sun light breaking down the peroxide into water and ozone gas which somehow chemically "bleaches" the plastic, lightens it. This is, IIRC, the consensus of all that was posted on the peroxide treatment. Retrobrite is a similar peroxide process but it was found that stabilized hair salon developer (peroxide) worked about the same. Stabilized developer is made so that the peroxide does not break down on its own as soon as the bottle is open. If you buy hydrogen peroxide at a drug store, as soon as you open it the whole bottle starts to break down to water and ozone, ozone which escapes and can be smelled with opening the bottle leaving ozone flavored water. The salon developer I used today was first opened in February 2015 and it was still fine.

The Clairol Pure White Developer 30 Volume has a shelf life of 3 years. Volume refers to the percentage of peroxide in the creme solution. You find 20, 30 and 40 volume developers and they are increasing concentrations of peroxide. 20vol is 6% peroxide, 30 vol is 9% peroxide and 40 vol is 12%. This comes from a hair salon site. They explain it with respect to lightening hair, or in other words, the Volume number to them describes how many 'levels' of lightening that will be achieved with the developer:  20vol is around 2 levels of lightness; 30vol is around 3-4 levels of lightness; and 40vol is around 6 levels of lightness.

So, I chose 30, not too hot, not too cold but just right. Since you can see the phone in the developer each time you smoosh it around the phone using the clear bag, you can see the color change each 10 minutes. So, rather than waste my money on 20 which might be too weak or buy 40 and find out it works to fast leaving mottled surface color, I went with 30 which seems to work just fine for me.

So, that's the story of hair salon developer that I researched over many topics and replies before trying it for myself. It may or may not work for you. This is not an endorsement. It is just a description of what I do, what it does for me and what I use to get the job done. All of this is posted in part all over this board:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=23.0

You can buy hair developer creme at any Sally Beauty Salon store (don't need a license to buy their stuff - there may be other such stores in your area - Sally is the one in my area that lets anyone buy anything).

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EDIT:  Added 5/24/17 for posterity:

QUESTION,

"Do you use the 30% liquid peroxide or the 30% cream peroxide?? I got a bottle of  40% cream this week and I don't know if I need to go back and get 30% liquid or if the 40% cream can be thinned and diluted??

"The Clairol Pure White Developer 30 Volume has a shelf life of 3 years. Volume refers to the percentage of peroxide in the creme solution.  You find 20, 30 and 40 volume developers and they are increasing concentrations of peroxide."

That's what I bought a couple of years ago so I some unopened bottles that have a year left on the shelf life. I bought two 40s and two 30s. I don't use it enough to be "familiar" with enough with exactly which to use and for how long but what I have done is use 30 right out of the bottle in a 2 gallon zip lock bag. I put the housing in the bag, pour in a quarter cup of developer, zip the bag closed with most of the air out of it and then smoosh the developer all around the housing. Put it in sun light and re-smoosh and rotate it in the sun every 5 to 10 minutes (to prevent hot spots and over exposure to any one side). Be careful not to have the ears on a 500 in the sun all of the time since that leads to overexposure of the tips and over color changing them.

When each side is looks good, I pull it out and rinse it off. If it needs more, it goes back into the bag with a bit more fresh developer and repeat the process. It needs sun light. I tried it in room light and the peroxide did not do anything.

The following is from this reply of mine: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17038.msg175932#msg175932

"The Clairol Pure White Developer 30 Volume has a shelf life of 3 years. Volume refers to the percentage of peroxide in the creme solution. You find 20, 30 and 40 volume developers and they are increasing concentrations of peroxide. 20vol is 6% peroxide, 30 vol is 9% peroxide and 40 vol is 12%. This comes from a hair salon site. They explain it with respect to lightening hair, or in other words, the Volume number to them describes how many 'levels' of lightening that will be achieved with the developer:  20vol is around 2 levels of lightness; 30vol is around 3-4 levels of lightness; and 40vol is around 6 levels of lightness.

So, I chose 30, not too hot, not too cold but just right. Since you can see the phone in the developer each time you smoosh it around the phone using the clear bag, you can see the color change each 10 minutes. So, rather than waste my money on 20 which might be too weak or buy 40 and find out it works to fast leaving mottled surface color, I went with 30 which seems to work just fine for me.

So, that's the story of hair salon developer that I researched over many topics and replies before trying it for myself. It may or may not work for you. This is not an endorsement. It is just a description of what I do, what it does for me and what I use to get the job done. All of this is posted in part all over this board:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=23.0

You can buy hair developer creme at any Sally Beauty Salon store (don't need a license to buy their stuff - there may be other such stores in your area - Sally is the one in my area that lets anyone buy anything)."

And, finally, I suppose if the shelf life was nearing it's end, putting the "old" developer in a glass bowl and adding liquid peroxide to it and mixing it thoroughly before dumping it into the bag would work fine (see last paragraph). The salon developer is a creme made to be a cream and to keep the peroxide from breaking down. Putting the correct amount of liquid peroxide into the "old" cream to add 2% peroxide to the "old" creme should work just fine. The whole point about the creme is having the peroxide in a vehicle which sticks to the plastic, to not run off as a liquid would do. I suppose one could make a pint of thick water using corn starch and then add the liquid peroxide just before use and get the same result  but I haven't tried that so don't know what the corn starch would do the the peroxide. I suppose, putting a drop of liquid on a small pile of peroxide would show if it reacts and kills the peroxide. If the liquid only wet the starch, that would work.

As for thinner, water would work, and corn starch thickened water would work better. To get Vol 40 which is 12% peroxide down to Vol 2 which is 6%, it would take a quarter cup of developer and a quarter cup of water. Plain water may thin the creme too much. You can take 40 down to 30 by mixing a quarter cup with and 1/8 cup of water and that should not dilute the 40 too much.

In hind sight, I'd go with 30 since 40 may be a "too fast acting" creme and harder to control the results. I don't have any liquid peroxide in the house or I'd try it with corn starch to see if it reacts. As you may know, if you cook, to thicken water with corn starch, you mix the corn starch with cold water and then heat it to a boil. When at boiling you can add more cold water with corn starch in it to thicken the hot stuff or plain water to thin it. Keep in mind the boiled corn starch will get thicken when cooled. If peroxide can be mixed in starch water, I'd shoot for a starched water that is about the consistency of the cream. Liquid peroxide is 3% and you can not heat it without destroying the peroxide.  So, even Vol 20 has twice the peroxide as the liquid unless the creme is really degraded, adding liquid to one of the cremes would only reduce the percentage of peroxide. However, using 3% liquid to dilute Vol 40 down would work to get it to Vol 30. So, 1/3 cup of liquid plus 2/3 cup of Vol 40 would give you a thinner creme at 9%, Vol 30.  If you used water, that ratio would take it down to Vol 20 or 6% but the water could be thickened with starch (is starch does not react with peroxide).

Doing research as I write to answer my questions as they come to mind. Found this at a hair salon stylist site:  "Gel color and thin bleach users should try using pure white cornstarch to thicken up their mixes 1 tablespoon at a time for foil applications, it guarantees zero foil travel." so corn starch would work. I put a quarter sized spot of 30 VOL in a glass bowl and added about 1/8 teaspoon of Argo Corn Starch. Got no fizzing reaction so it seems the peroxide was not degraded. I did notice the starch thickened the creme. So, adding water to dilute and starch to thicken (may not need to be boiled - dilute the Vol 40 to Vol 30 and then add starch until the creme is what you want). I got to try that next time I have a colored housing to process.

So, 3/4 cup of Vol 40 mixed with 1/4 cup of water (or 3/8 cup Vol 40 mixed with 1/8 cup of water for a half cup of mixed solution) and corn starch added to get a desired thickness would give you a workable Vol 30, right? If it was old Vol 40, you could use liquid 3% peroxide but not knowing how degraded the Vol 40 was, all you could say is the mixture would be less than Vol 40.

Hope than answers your question.

Late night chemistry. Some of what I wrote at the end may contradict earlier thoughts so the later stuff should be more correct. I'm going to add this to the linked reply so I don't have to re-invent the wheel next time I need to know this."

[jsowers]

When doing the bleach method, after few hours in the sun, do you remove the housing from the mixture overnight & put it back in the next sunlight, or just it in the mixture overnight?

I've always bleached plastics in the sun in a dishpan and it works much better in the sun, or that's been my experience. Yes, take the plastics out of the bleach overnight. I rinse them with plain water and then dry them with a towel. Summer sun works better too. It's almost too late for doing it now in NC.

[Pourme]

I soaked it in a bleach mixture today for a few hours, no effect. I could use the peroxide John described, above tomorrow.

[TelePlay]

I've always bleached plastics in the sun in a dishpan and it works much better in the sun, or that's been my experience. Yes, take the plastics out of the bleach overnight. I rinse them with plain water and then dry them with a towel. Summer sun works better too. It's almost too late for doing it now in NC.

Makes sense. It's the UV rays working with the chlorine that affects the molecules on the surface and near surface of the plastic. There was a discussion of this somewhere on the forum. Plastic color is due to absorption of certain wavelengths. Those that are not absorbed by the plastic are reflected and that is the color you see. Over time, a darkening plastic would be absorbing more of the spectrum or different parts if the color was also changing. Peroxide or bleach affect the molecular structure of the plastic to, in this case, reflect more light (all light is white, no light is black - that's why black gets hot in the sun faster than white).

One can also sand off that top, damaged layer and get the same effect, with a lot more work.

Never thought of a dish pan (a pail came to mine), but that means you have to do it from what, 10 am to 2 pm to get the high sun into the pan? If so, that would be the time during which the sun's help would be the highest. I know bleach has worked for many, just settled on peroxide. Your sun in NC now is about as hot as it gets in mid summer up north here.

[Pourme]

I have some of the peroxide you mentioned but it is "40"... should I not use it?...We have a Sally's I could get 30, easily

[Pourme]

BTW John,

I used you method on the handset cord today!

That is genius! The cord came out like new..

[TelePlay]

BTW John,

I used you method on the handset cord today!

That is genius! The cord came out like new..

Wow, that's great, but keep in mind that it was Dan/Panther who came up with the idea, ingredients and formula. I'm still waiting for my red dyekem to arrive, by next week end, and I should be ready to do the cord by then.

What did you use to hold the red liquid, how much formula did you make?

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As for 40vol, you can use if but keep an eye on it, smoosh it more often (every 5 minutes) and rotate it after smooshing. Or, you could dilute it with distilled water with 3 parts 40vol to 1 part water (that would drop the 12% to 9%) or 3/4 cup of 40vol and 1/4 cup water. Mix it outside the bag just before putting it into the bag.

Never used 40vol, IIRC most members used 20Vol. I found 30vol works great. So, in a 2 gallon zip lock freezer bag, place the clean housing, mix the developer, dump it in, seal the bag, smoosh it all over the housing and put it in the sun. Re-smoosh and turn every 10 minutes. At least, that's the procedure I used.

===========================

I realize this topic has taken several forks but everything is related and so intertwined that there is no way to split out the polish vs the chemical treatment so it will stay as is. I think it's a good tutorial, a summation, of what's been posted years ago for newer members. The large topic of wet paper sanding (of defects or to eliminate color changes), chemical sanding, chemical polishing, polishing with various polishing products and adjusting the color of the plastic by bleach or peroxide or Retrobrite are all tools that are part of the same step of telephone restoration, rejuvenating the housing and handset condition and color.

[Pourme]

Wow, that's great, but keep in mind that it was Dan/Panther who came up with the idea, ingredients and formula. I'm still waiting for my red dyekem to arrive, by next week end, and I should be ready to do the cord by then.

What did you use to hold the red liquid, how much formula did you make?

===========================

As for 40vol, you can use if but keep an eye on it, smoosh it more often (every 5 minutes) and rotate it after smooshing. Or, you could dilute it with distilled water with 3 parts 40vol to 1 part water (that would drop the 12% to 9%) or 3/4 cup of 40vol and 1/4 cup water. Mix it outside the bag just before putting it into the bag.

Never used 40vol, IIRC most members used 20Vol. I found 30vol works great. So, in a 2 gallon zip lock freezer bag, place the clean housing, mix the developer, dump it in, seal the bag, smoosh it all over the housing and put it in the sun. Re-smoosh and turn every 10 minutes. At least, that's the procedure I used.

===========================

I realize this topic has taken several forks but everything is related and so intertwined that there is no way to split out the polish vs the chemical treatment so it will stay as is. I think it's a good tutorial, a summation, of what's been posted years ago for newer members. The large topic of wet paper sanding (of defects or to eliminate color changes), chemical sanding, chemical polishing, polishing with various polishing products and adjusting the color of the plastic by bleach or peroxide or Retrobrite are all tools that are part of the same step of telephone restoration, rejuvenating the housing and handset condition and color.

First, my apologies to Dan/Panther. My mistake. This is a truly amazing process! I visited a local flea market yesterday looking for possibly a few glass soup bowls to use, as I didn't want to reuse them for anything else.  I came across a set of three stainless steel bowls for $2, perfect! Having already purchased the ingredients I began. I put a cheap tarp on my lower gravel driveway. I divided the thinner in half and added a teaspoon of red layout fluid and stirred. I added the handset cord and mixed it around periodically to ensure evenness as I checked for color. It took about 20 minutes to get the color right, as compared to the ends of the cord that were protected from the fade.

The only other ingredient I would add would be the two jiggers of rum and 12 oz of my favorite soft drink over ice.

I couldn't help but smile even laugh out loud at the results. (Could have been the rum?)

As I was cleaning up, I had a idea. What if I put a white Modular plug cord in this mixture? Could I create a pink line cord? Long story short, The vinyl sheathing is less porous and I left it in overnight and got a lighter results, but pink never the less.

I will use my 40% and add water as you suggest on the plastics, today. I'll report back. There are scratches on the body, someone scrapped stickers off at some point, so I will have to do some sanding. I don't want to have to sand every crevice to balance the color.