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#1
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by RDPipes - Today at 07:41:14 AMI've painted quite a few prewar metal (zinc) case phones WE & SC and I've found no matter what rattle can paint you use 24 hours isn't long enough time for it to completely cure even using a oven because it's still remains a bit rubbery after words. It's okay to handle but, if one takes their finger nail and presses on it it'll mark it, it's not 2K automotive paint and it will never be but, you can get good results. Just be patient for the paint to cure and watch your flash times. I've had cases even when oven baking it took close to a mouth before I could rub it out. below are some I've done.
#2
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by TelePlay - Today at 07:12:53 AMBaking cures the paint polymerization process in one hour. The same level of curing, making the paint hard and tight on the surface, can be achieved by letting the painted item sit at room temperature for 3 to 6 months.
Paint doesn't dry, the carrier solvents evaporate and then the paint cures. IIRC, all auto paint shops expose newly painted surfaces to heat lamps to do the same thing.
Take two small pieces of sheet metal. Clean, degrease with acetone, sand with 400 grit to get a surface bite, blow off the sanding dust with a clean cotton cloth and then a hair dryer and then prime and paint both the same way at the same time. Bake one first at 110 to get the solvents off without bubbling the paint and then at 250 to 300 and after it cools, do your fingernail test on both. Then decide which is best.
Paint doesn't dry, the carrier solvents evaporate and then the paint cures. IIRC, all auto paint shops expose newly painted surfaces to heat lamps to do the same thing.
Take two small pieces of sheet metal. Clean, degrease with acetone, sand with 400 grit to get a surface bite, blow off the sanding dust with a clean cotton cloth and then a hair dryer and then prime and paint both the same way at the same time. Bake one first at 110 to get the solvents off without bubbling the paint and then at 250 to 300 and after it cools, do your fingernail test on both. Then decide which is best.
#3
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by tubaman - Today at 03:00:22 AMI've only painted a few parts but as Teleplay have also used standard automotive aerosol primer and top coat. I haven't baked it on but it seems reasonably robust - probably not as strong as the factory finish but then I wouldn't expect it to be. I'd also say if it's being air dried to give it a few days before any rough handling.
#4
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by turbofirev8 - Today at 01:50:07 AMThanks for the reply. Other then the heating though, your process sounds pretty much exactly how I tried to do things, particularly on my third attempt. As I understand it, heating a piece, which will bake off the solvents in the paint, only really helps the paint to dry quicker and lay a bit smoother as it allows it to flow some during the process, but it doesn't necessarily help all that much with adhesion, correct? Certainly it won't help paint to adhere to a surface it wouldn't adhere to normally anyway, at least that's how I understand it.
Any idea what brand of paint you use? Probably Krylon or Rustoleum I'm assuming, as that is what Wal-mart, like pretty much every other store around, usually carries. That is actually where I got the paint, both brands, that I used on all these different attempts.
I'm going to go back to not using a solvent to wipe it down as I think it is getting trapped in the more porous surface after the blasting process and not evaporating as quickly, though I've never had that problem with plain steel parts before. Either way I think the use of solvent is just adding to the issue, and I fear if I used soap and water to simply wash the parts the soap might do the same. Instead I'll sand it by hand for the hundredth time. Then go back to using a tack cloth and compressed air for final prep and see if that and the combination of the Kyrlon 5X adhesion paint, which worked on the other phone part I mentioned, will do it. Frankly, I'm not sure if blasting them is hurting more then helping at this point. I'm only using glass bead to blast them though, which is relatively mild and does not significantly pit the surface, not like sand or black oxide would. I figured a more porous surface is what I would need to help adhesion here though, as I've had luck with similar techniques in the past with materials like aluminum, but I'm not sure if that's true or not on this material.
Anyone with any further thoughts, tips, or suggestions though would be appreciated. Thanks again.
Any idea what brand of paint you use? Probably Krylon or Rustoleum I'm assuming, as that is what Wal-mart, like pretty much every other store around, usually carries. That is actually where I got the paint, both brands, that I used on all these different attempts.
I'm going to go back to not using a solvent to wipe it down as I think it is getting trapped in the more porous surface after the blasting process and not evaporating as quickly, though I've never had that problem with plain steel parts before. Either way I think the use of solvent is just adding to the issue, and I fear if I used soap and water to simply wash the parts the soap might do the same. Instead I'll sand it by hand for the hundredth time. Then go back to using a tack cloth and compressed air for final prep and see if that and the combination of the Kyrlon 5X adhesion paint, which worked on the other phone part I mentioned, will do it. Frankly, I'm not sure if blasting them is hurting more then helping at this point. I'm only using glass bead to blast them though, which is relatively mild and does not significantly pit the surface, not like sand or black oxide would. I figured a more porous surface is what I would need to help adhesion here though, as I've had luck with similar techniques in the past with materials like aluminum, but I'm not sure if that's true or not on this material.
Anyone with any further thoughts, tips, or suggestions though would be appreciated. Thanks again.
#5
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by TelePlay - Yesterday at 07:55:27 PMWith the new images, I can see the red circled leaves (white wires) are the mute circuit and the blue circled leaves are the pulsing circuit.
#6
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by TelePlay - Yesterday at 07:49:41 PMI've always had good results using rattle can automotive primer and paint from Walmart.
As, I remember, after stripping the metal and/or sanding remaining original paint smooth with 400 grit, degreasing the surface with acetone, applying the primer and then the first coat of paint after an hour of applying the primer.
Then baking it at about 120 degrees to let the solvents bake off and then increasing the temperature to set the paint.
When cool, sand with 600 grit, remove all sanding dust with clean compressed air and applying a second, and final coating.
Bake the same way and when cool, apply a coating of renaissance wax with a soft cotton cloth and buffed using a micro fiber cloth.
Works on brass, pot metal, aluminum and steel. Never tried it on copper.
Water and silicone surface contamination will cause issues.
Bought a larger cubic inch convection oven at Walmart for about $55 a few years ago.
This link has the method I used and baking times/temps.
https://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8770.msg202165#msg202165
As, I remember, after stripping the metal and/or sanding remaining original paint smooth with 400 grit, degreasing the surface with acetone, applying the primer and then the first coat of paint after an hour of applying the primer.
Then baking it at about 120 degrees to let the solvents bake off and then increasing the temperature to set the paint.
When cool, sand with 600 grit, remove all sanding dust with clean compressed air and applying a second, and final coating.
Bake the same way and when cool, apply a coating of renaissance wax with a soft cotton cloth and buffed using a micro fiber cloth.
Works on brass, pot metal, aluminum and steel. Never tried it on copper.
Water and silicone surface contamination will cause issues.
Bought a larger cubic inch convection oven at Walmart for about $55 a few years ago.
This link has the method I used and baking times/temps.
https://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8770.msg202165#msg202165
#7
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by bcarolla - Yesterday at 06:51:46 PMQuote from: poplar1 on Yesterday at 03:40:40 PMIn the second photo, it appears to me that the 2 white wires are connected to the muting contact springs. So when you dial, you are not hearing dial tone, because
the receiver is shorted.
Also, make sure there is not an added wire (strap) between F and RR.
I hear dial tone until I move the dial and the switch in red goes closed.
Quote from: TelePlay on Yesterday at 03:51:39 PMDid I get this wrong? To me it looks like the white wires are connected to the pulse contacts in the dial, the red circle.More images per your request. Hope they show what you are looking for if not tell me what more is needed. The last picture shows where the two white wires from the dial plug in. Thanks!!
Could use better images of the dial from different angles showing what is operating both sets of leaf springs.
#8
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by turbofirev8 - Yesterday at 05:33:42 PMThank you for the welcome at least, Harry. I'm also located in Florida by the way. I considered using regular automotive type paint but frankly thought it might be over kill. Plus, considering all the issues I've been having with just spray paint, that could get expensive. I'm guessing the issue this time is the solvent used to wipe it down, which I don't like to use frankly because of the possibilities of fish eyeing if not sufficiently evaporated from the surface, but if I'm not sure I can use a tack cloth either, what else can I do? If I had an oven I could use it to aid the process, but I don't. Usually 24 hours is more then enough time though. The only other thing I could do is a soap and water wash after blasting, which I hate to do with bare metal usually because it promotes flash rusting, though maybe not with the alloy these phones are made from?
Maybe I should look into Japanning or a Black Bitumen paint/coating?
Maybe I should look into Japanning or a Black Bitumen paint/coating?
#9
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / Re: NEED HELP! Painting metal ...
Last post by HarrySmith - Yesterday at 05:08:18 PMHi and Welcome to the forum. I am sorry to hear about all your trouble with painting. I have not tried painting any phones. I have had phones and parts painted by a body shop using the same procedure and paint they do on cars with great results. Sorry I have no help or advice to offer you but I feel you pain 
#10
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / NEED HELP! Painting metal phon...
Last post by turbofirev8 - Yesterday at 04:37:31 PMHi, I'm new to the forum and I am in need of advice badly as I am now officially at my wits end with this. I have a few different phone projects that I've been working on here and there for some time and recently I decided to go ahead and paint the lot of metal phone parts that were more chips then paint, which is the only reason I would paint an old phone personally, but it has turned into an absolute nightmare.
Originally I painted the entire lot, which consisted of three different phone bodies (a Western Electric 302 from 1941, a Stromberg-Carlson 1243, and a Connecticut TP-6-A 'toaster' from 1952), four finger wheels (two brass Automatic Electric, an aluminum Western Electric, and a steel Western Electric), four dial card rings (three brass and one aluminum), two finger cups (made out of pot metal I assume), and the hook switch flapper for the Stromberg-Carlson. So a differing variety of metal components. Initially the paint (Rustoleum black spray paint) laid down fine, nice and smooth. I even assembled most of the components thinking everything was fine, until my finger slipped while working on one of them and my nail took off a large chunk of paint straight back down to smooth metal beneath. After I got over the shock, and as agonizing as it was to do, in the end I tried the same with each and every component I had painted, running just my fingernail across them and... the exact same thing. No matter the type of metal, chipped right off with absolute ease with just my finger nail. So I disassembled everything again and stripped all the paint off, which was not adhering to any of the metal. I've never had paint that was not adhering lay down so nice and smooth before honestly. What a heart breaker that was.
So then I tried again with the first two phone bodies, this time using Rustoleum etching primer, as I had managed to find a few threads on here where people said etch priming them was a necessity. Well, it didn't work for me. It turned out to be the same difference after drying for several days, looked nice and smooth but peeled right off, back down to bare metal with little effort. I had been using a tack cloth for final prep until this point, as I always have when painting stuff for my classic car projects, but it got into my head that maybe the issue was some sort of residue off the cloth preventing adhesion to these types of metal. So, I tried for a third time with just the 302 body, sanding it down, wiping it with solvent, and then just blowing it off with dry compressed air before priming. Nope. Same difference. The paint, actually etch primer again in this case, would lay down nice and smooth, but would not stick at all to the metal beneath.
At this point I went back to the only other metal phone part I had ever painted before, a handset hook on a Western Electric 354 wall phone for my shop. This paint had stuck without any issue using the same technique I had been trying for these other components, it had even appeared to be a similar type of metal to the phone bodies. The only difference I realized was I had used Krylon 5X adhesion paint by pure happen stance, as I had a can from some other project left over when I went to paint it. So, thinking that this different brand/type of paint must be the solution, I went out and bought some more of that exact paint and this time fired up my blasting cabinet and bead blasted the 302 case to assure it had a sufficiently roughed up surface to even better promote paint adhesion. Then I wiped it down with solvent to remove the dust/residue from blasting and let sit for 24 hours as I had before the previous painting attempt, blowing it off with only compressed air before painting.
This time, nothing but fish eyes over every millimeter of surface. The paint won't even lay down now. At least it was laying down flat and smooth before. Sure, it didn't adhere, but now I can't help but think that I've made things even worse. I literally have no idea where to go from here. The only thing I can think is there's still unevaporated solvent on it, but I don't know how. I've been working on classic cars as a hobby, including painting them, for over three decades now and these are the techniques I've used for painting smaller chassis and under hood components in all that time without any issue. Granted, these phones (which I'm much more new to as a hobby) are made from different alloys then most of which I'm used to on older vehicles. I don't even mess with aluminum parts all that often on my cars to be honest. I've read every post about painting I could locate on here however, and other then powder coating (which I don't have a powder coat system available to me) or baking them in the oven (which again I don't have access to in my shop) I've tried what others have suggested to no avail. Any suggestions, comments, sympathy (especially from others who have managed to successfully paint their phones) would be very much appreciated.
Originally I painted the entire lot, which consisted of three different phone bodies (a Western Electric 302 from 1941, a Stromberg-Carlson 1243, and a Connecticut TP-6-A 'toaster' from 1952), four finger wheels (two brass Automatic Electric, an aluminum Western Electric, and a steel Western Electric), four dial card rings (three brass and one aluminum), two finger cups (made out of pot metal I assume), and the hook switch flapper for the Stromberg-Carlson. So a differing variety of metal components. Initially the paint (Rustoleum black spray paint) laid down fine, nice and smooth. I even assembled most of the components thinking everything was fine, until my finger slipped while working on one of them and my nail took off a large chunk of paint straight back down to smooth metal beneath. After I got over the shock, and as agonizing as it was to do, in the end I tried the same with each and every component I had painted, running just my fingernail across them and... the exact same thing. No matter the type of metal, chipped right off with absolute ease with just my finger nail. So I disassembled everything again and stripped all the paint off, which was not adhering to any of the metal. I've never had paint that was not adhering lay down so nice and smooth before honestly. What a heart breaker that was.
So then I tried again with the first two phone bodies, this time using Rustoleum etching primer, as I had managed to find a few threads on here where people said etch priming them was a necessity. Well, it didn't work for me. It turned out to be the same difference after drying for several days, looked nice and smooth but peeled right off, back down to bare metal with little effort. I had been using a tack cloth for final prep until this point, as I always have when painting stuff for my classic car projects, but it got into my head that maybe the issue was some sort of residue off the cloth preventing adhesion to these types of metal. So, I tried for a third time with just the 302 body, sanding it down, wiping it with solvent, and then just blowing it off with dry compressed air before priming. Nope. Same difference. The paint, actually etch primer again in this case, would lay down nice and smooth, but would not stick at all to the metal beneath.
At this point I went back to the only other metal phone part I had ever painted before, a handset hook on a Western Electric 354 wall phone for my shop. This paint had stuck without any issue using the same technique I had been trying for these other components, it had even appeared to be a similar type of metal to the phone bodies. The only difference I realized was I had used Krylon 5X adhesion paint by pure happen stance, as I had a can from some other project left over when I went to paint it. So, thinking that this different brand/type of paint must be the solution, I went out and bought some more of that exact paint and this time fired up my blasting cabinet and bead blasted the 302 case to assure it had a sufficiently roughed up surface to even better promote paint adhesion. Then I wiped it down with solvent to remove the dust/residue from blasting and let sit for 24 hours as I had before the previous painting attempt, blowing it off with only compressed air before painting.
This time, nothing but fish eyes over every millimeter of surface. The paint won't even lay down now. At least it was laying down flat and smooth before. Sure, it didn't adhere, but now I can't help but think that I've made things even worse. I literally have no idea where to go from here. The only thing I can think is there's still unevaporated solvent on it, but I don't know how. I've been working on classic cars as a hobby, including painting them, for over three decades now and these are the techniques I've used for painting smaller chassis and under hood components in all that time without any issue. Granted, these phones (which I'm much more new to as a hobby) are made from different alloys then most of which I'm used to on older vehicles. I don't even mess with aluminum parts all that often on my cars to be honest. I've read every post about painting I could locate on here however, and other then powder coating (which I don't have a powder coat system available to me) or baking them in the oven (which again I don't have access to in my shop) I've tried what others have suggested to no avail. Any suggestions, comments, sympathy (especially from others who have managed to successfully paint their phones) would be very much appreciated.