Still Another Candlestick

[LarryInMichigan]

The candlestick collection keeps growing.  This: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290610518829 just recently appeared on ebay as a $25 BIN, and although it's a bit rough, I pushed the button.  I already have a Kellogg manual desk stand with an internal inductor coil (to which I added a capacitor and is now a working phone), but I didn't have a Kellogg dial stick.  Now I need to find the appropriate dial for this. 

Larry

[wds]

Great find!  I usually don't look at all the phones when I'm surfing Ebay, so I don't make it to the BIN section which is usually at the end of the list.  Looks like it only needs a couple items replaced.  Since the dial sits on top, and is not recessed, you can't use a Kellogg dial.  I think the correct dial is an AE dial. 

[LarryInMichigan]

Since the dial sits on top, and is not recessed, you can't use a Kellogg dial.  I think the correct dial is an AE dial. 

Look at pages 197-198 of the 1923 Kellogg catalog (http://www.strombergcarlsontelephone.com/kellogg/PDF/1923_CAT_6_GENERAL.pdf).  Kellogg did make a dial for this.  I have a North dial from 1931 which I was hoping to be able to use, but it looks like its mounting holes are in a different configuration.

I figured that, if I didn't buy this phone, you would

Larry

[wds]

I'll have to start going all the way to the end of the list from now on.  

That Kellogg dial in the 1923 manual would be a great find, and would look wonderful on one of those kellogg candlesticks!

[stopthemachine]

Wow, Larry!  Seriously, you should get a nomination for the September Find of the Month for this!  Those Kellogg dial c/s phones are hard to find and sell for a nice chunk of change when fixed up completely--of course, I'm sure you'll want to keep it though.  I finally got my first Kellogg dial c/s about a year ago after wanting to complete the dial c/s collection: WE, SC, AE, and then Kellogg.

Did any other companies make dial candstick phones?  Hmmmm.

[LarryInMichigan]

Aside from this latest one, I have two WE candlesticks (20AL and 51/151 AL), one Chicago, one Leich, one Kellogg, one AE step-base dial which is badly pitted and needs alot of work, and a British GPO 150 which is almost restored.  I also have a Kellogg Grabaphone (which is one step away from a candlestick.

Larry

[GG]

I have one of those Kellogg dials minus the fingerwheel and the fingerstop.  The mechanism is fully functional.  Would that be useful to anyone here, and what's it tradeable for?   Or alternately, where can I get the missing parts?

And speaking of parts, where can I get a "Mercedes" number card retainer ring for the AE dial of that vintage? 

[wds]

The dial card ring for the Kellogg dial is a two spoke.  I bought one of those from PhoneCo not too long ago - and I know they had more at that time.  I think they were only about $10 which is pretty cheap for that item.  The three spoke is impossible to find, if that's what your looking for - and if you do find them, I'll take 6!  I would be interested in the Kellogg dial, but i think the chances of finding the fingerwheel is pretty slim.  

[GG]

WDS, what's my Kellogg dial likely to be tradeable for, or what could you offer in trade?  (For example is it worth a WE #2 dial or a #4?)  This is fully functional and the number plate is good, I'll post pics once I get my photography setup working (probably next weekend). 

I'm thinking it would be pretty easy to manufacture a fingerwheel for that Kellogg dial, since it's is basically a flat piece of metal with the finger holes and mounting hole drilled.  Anyone with access to a machine shop and the proper skills could do it.  A fingerstop could also be fabricated by grinding, filing, and bending, after cutting to match a cardboard template. 

I have a Kellogg 2-spoke retainer ring that I was thinking of putting on an AE Mercedes dial that was missing the 3-spoke retainer ring.  It doesn't quite fit flat to the fingerwheel, so I'm going to have to fiddle with it a bit.  This for potential use on an AE step-base desk stand that's presently equipped with a type 24 dial (the one with the loud ratchet) that all works perfectly.  The type 24 dial may have been a repair/replacement if the original Mercedes dial broke down, or it might have been original (it has a Strowger PAX number card with no number written in).  I'm debating whether to change out the dial from the type 24 to the Mercedes, or leave the whole thing as-found.   

I will definitely admit to a perverse pleasure in calling up friends on that thing, and after they ask where I'm calling from, informing them that I'm talking to them on a 95-year-old phone that was rescued from the wild and worked perfectly *and sounds better than all those pesky modern "smart" phones!*

So there's an incentive to change out the dial (restored to what would have been original equipment), and an incentive to just give the phone a good cleaning ("as-found, only cleaned up, and still works like new!").    What to do...

[wds]

Not sure what the value of an incomplete dial is.  Trying to find the missing parts would be a challenge, to say the least.  I'm anxious to see pictures though.  As far as putting a two spoke on an AE dial, it's probably ok that the ring doesn't fit flat - you need to leave a little space between the number card and the fingerwheel.  If you don't, the ratchet pawl and retainer spring won't ratchet properly.  If you put too much pressure on the ratchet pawl, it can't move, and the dial won't return.  I actually put a washer under my 3 spoke ring to allow more space for the ratchet, and the dial works much better that way.  

[wds]

Something else I thought of - there is another card holder ring that is correct for the mercedes dial.  I prefer the 3 spoke, but when I can't find one, this one is perfectly acceptable also.  I got the back plate from PhoneCo, and the rings I picked up off of Ebay.  The ring is not the same as a standard AE ring - it's specific to the mercedes dial.  

By the way Larry, I'm still jealous of that $25 Kellogg dial stick.  Now I go all the way through the BIN items.  I did pick up a nice metal 302 for $19 a couple days ago from the BIN items.  want to trade?

[GG]

Hi Dave-

Yes, that's the same retainer ring as used on AE manual dial blanks, with one prong on one side, and two smaller prongs on the other side, that just clips into place without a special tool.  For that to work one needs a flat head screw that will fit under the number card, and the screw that is used on the dial blank is not the same. Also that ring tends to get in the way of one's fingers while dialing: it's just large enough to come just a tad too close to the holes in the fingerwheel. 

Yes I know about the issue with the ratchet & pawl.  For which reason the Kellogg 2-spoke retainer ring would have to be pressed down over an object such as to bend the center of it up to a higher plane than the circumference: this so the center is high enough for the dial spindle, the circumference comes down flat on the fingerwheel, and there's clearance for the ratchet. 

Thanks  -GG

[LarryInMichigan]

The Kellogg phone arrived this afternoon.  Despite the instructions to wrap the receiver separately, the phone was wrapped with the receiver in the hook .  Fortunately, no damage seems to have resulted.  The phone is in pretty good condition.  The receiver cup is in excellent shape, but unfortunately, the broken cap is glued to it.  The yellowish stuff visible in the ebay picture is actually heavy-duty glue which not only holds the pieces of the cap together, but also holds the cap to the cup and diaphragm.  The receiver actually works reasonably well though.  I might just leave it alone.  I have been building a list of bakelite parts which need patching, so this can join the list along with the transmitter mouthpiece.

The cords are both in excellent condition.  The seller kindly included the lint and spider webs with them.  The finish on the base appears to be in very good condition but has a thin layer of messy black paint over it.  I removed some of it with a rag and Brasso.  The dial blank is held with thee screws which go through three holes arranged in an unfamiliar pattern.  None of my dials will be able to attach with these holes.  There must be some sort of adapter bracket.

The transmitter face and cup appear to have been originally black.  I expected a nickel finish to be obvious beneath the black surface, but one is not.  The transmitter just barely works.  I probably need to adjust it somehow, and I will probably need advice eventually on how to do so without destroying it.

The phone is quite a bit shorter than the WE sticks.  Below is a picture with most my candlesticks.  I apologize for the blurriness.  I used a very expensive Nikon camera which I am supposed to be writing software to control, and I cannot figure out how to disable the counter-productive auto-focus feature on it.

Larry

[wds]

Nice collection!  I've had good luck removing glue with paint stripper, or goof off.  Or just paint the glue black and forget it! 

[LarryInMichigan]

I don't want to destroy the receiver in the process of removing the glue.  I suppose acetone would probably work best, but I will prbably leave it for now, especially since I don't have a replacement cap anyway.  I already remove the worst globs of glue with a pocket knife.

Larry