Found - WANTED: Automatic Electric Ringer Box wiring

[Jf510]

I bought this ringer box last year and now checking it out and I can't find a wiring diagram for it on line. The capacitor says Automatic Electric so I assume that's what it is. My only experiences is with Western Electric so I know nothing about this one. I want to wire a Western Electric 202 to it. Any help would be appreciated.

[unbeldi]

Does the unit have any identifying markings on it ?  Part numbers on induction coil ?  Vermillion stamps on base ?

Does the condenser canister (the silver metal can) contain two capacitances or just one, and what are the values stamped on it ?

A WECo 202 requires an anti-sidetone subset (AST), such as a 634A, or a 684A.
We have to determine that this subset is in fact an AST subset.

[poplar1]

A WECo 202 requires an anti-sidetone subset (AST), such as a 634A, or a 684A.
We have to determine that this subset is in fact an AST subset.

A 202 requires an AST subset in order to be used in an AST circuit. However, a 202, 201, 211, 151AL, or other AST telephone may be used with a sidetone subset, by simply taping and storing the black conductor in the mounting cord.

[Jf510]

Here's a few pictures that I hope will help. Sorry for the pictures ending up upside down.

[unbeldi]

Ok, the part numbers that I see agree with this being the desk set box for a type 1A or type 21 instrument with an anti-sidetone circuit.
The circuit of these is actually quite different than a WECo AST circuit.
IIRC, we analyzed wiring compatibility to make a 202-equivalent telephone with a D1 before somewhere on this forum, but I may mis-remember.
Frankly, I would not mix manufacturers like this. I have to review the circuits to see what needs to be changed in the desk set.

Here is what I think the circuit of this subset was when used with a 1A Monophone.
I highlighted the subset portion of the wiring schematic with a blue broken-line box.
I think you should verify the wiring of your box against this diagram, but to make it work with a D1 will require changes in both the subset and the desk set.

[Jf510]

Thanks for the diagram. I will compare it to my ringer box also since you state it's not a good idea to mix manufactures I will not do that.

[unbeldi]

By chance, I ran across this discussion that addresses the identical subject matter of connecting a 202 to an AE AST subset:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15752.0

I posted there a diagram of that subset, and I believe that diagram is directly applicable to your AE subset here:



This just for your reference, because I think your decision to use a WECo subset is the correct one in the end. That way your set operates exactly as intended with the best performance characteristics as possible given the age of the components.

[unbeldi]

Out of curiosity, is there any chance you could confirm the resistances of the three windings of the induction coil by measuring them with a multimeter ?

[Jf510]

Thanks for that information and wiring diagram as for measuring the induction coil I am a beginner using a multimeter. If you could be more specific as to what points I need to measure I would be happy to.

[unbeldi]

Thanks for that information and wiring diagram as for measuring the induction coil I am a beginner using a multimeter. If you could be more specific as to what points I need to measure I would be happy to.

The induction coil has its terminals marked on the ends.
On one end you have 1 5 3  and on the other  4 6 2, each digit is next to a terminal.

So, set your meter to an ohm scale that covers the range 0 to 300 ohms, and connect your meter to
1 and 2,  then
3 and 4, and finally
5 and 6

I think you should expect ca 20 ohms between 1 and 2,  again ca. 20 ohms between 3 and 4, and ca. 200 ohm between 5 and 6.

Practicing the use of the ohm function of a multimeter is good, because it helps in tracing wires and detecting broken wires and poor connection/solder points on old phones.

[Jf510]

Thanks for that instructions on the multimeter. I measured 1-2 and it was about 24, 3-4 was 20 and 5-6 barely moved the needle. That last reading doesn't sound good.

[unbeldi]

Thanks for that instructions on the multimeter. I measured 1-2 and it was about 24, 3-4 was 20 and 5-6 barely moved the needle. That last reading doesn't sound good.

Great. Well, it sounds like you need to switch the meter to a larger scale for the last measurement since you are using an analog meter.
On a larger scale you will get a better reading as more current is applied for the measurement.

[Jf510]

The readings of 1-2 and 3-4 I had the meter at RX1. I moved it as you advised to RX 10 and 5-6 was at about 24. I don't have a clue to what all that means. Does the readings look ok?

[unbeldi]

The readings of 1-2 and 3-4 I had the meter at RX1. I moved it as you advised to RX 10 and 5-6 was at about 24. I don't have a clue to what all that means. Does the readings look ok?

Yeah that looks approximately right, perhaps a little bit high on all.

On the Rx10 setting, you have to multiply the value on the scale by 10, so it is 240 ohms.

I should have mentioned, that with analog meter you have to make sure that the unit zeroed correctly before measurement by shorting the leads directly, and adjusting a wheel or knob on the meter so that it shows zero exactly.



Thanks for the test.

[Jf510]

Thanks for your pointers and help.