302 prices

[johnfin]

How come 302 (bakelite cases) are all over the place. I bought mine for $20 and it works fine and looks good too. Is this one of those fool and their money things?

http://tinyurl.com/bvbp68
vs.

http://tinyurl.com/bgecjk

[benhutcherson]

The first one is from a seller who know a thing or two about telephones, and knows how to shine them up and present them well.

While the $149 price is on the high end, it's not too far out of line for one such as this. Your stereotypical soccer mom who just wants one to look nice on the end table is probably far more likely to buy one of these, and to drive the price up.

Anywhere from $10-30 isn't at all unusual for an as-found one that would appeal more to a collector.

By the way, the only part of these that are bakelite are the handsets. The plastic cases are made of tenite, a type of thermoplastic.

[Perry]

Well, I wouldn't pay that much for the first phone, but presentation counts on eBay.

The second phone looks like it was crudely repainted. Notice the black finger stop and the overspray on the cord.

[Dennis Markham]

Phone number one could use some more work on the handset.  I can get cleaner than that.  So the new owner can still "fix it up" but for that price shouldn't have to.

[Bill]

Dennis -

Re the first phone, the handset looks like several I have seen, and a couple I own. The problem doesn't appear to be surface dirt. It looks more like the surface is covered with tiny pits, as if it had been sandblasted. Or perhaps etched by the acidic sweat of the user's hand. You say you can get cleaner than that. Suggestions? Or am I just misinterpreting what I see?

Bill

[Dennis Markham]

Well, they don't all get a glossy shine to them but that one looks like there is a layer of crud on it that might still come off.  Of course the first thing I do is wash them in warm soapy water---letting the part soak until the water is no longer warm.  I use water that is almost hot to begin with.

Afterward I will just use Novus2 and a good cotton athletic sock.  Some have suggested Brasso and I've tried that using the "new formula" of Brasso (since I can't seem to find the old formula in the can any more).  I don't seem to get any better results with Brasso and go back to Novus 2.  I use a hand held buffing wheel with a terry cloth cover over the pad.  I actually have two buffing wheels, one rotates a bit slower than the small Ryobi.  It was designed for waxing an automobile..not one of those big ones that take two hands.  (I may have a photo I can attach).  My first buffer has a more firm pad under the terry cloth cover...not as spongy as the Ryobi.   It is not good for getting into the cracks and crevices but does a good job on the flatter surfaces.  I follow that up with the Ryobi.  When done with that I buff it off with a soft cloth.  But I'm still not done yet.

I go back to hand polishing.  Especially with the F1's---with that pointy back side of the handle, I put a bead of Novus on either side of the "peak".  Then with my hand inside the athletic sock I'll have my thumb on one side of the handset and fingers on the other and just rub it good back and forth until there is enough friction to warm the part.  Eventually the polish will work into the surface and will become dry.  Do that and look at your cloth.  It will be yellow with dirt and grime.  This is after all the buffing.  I just repeat until I no longer get yellow/brown off the part.  Eventually the residue on the rag will be a grayish color and now it's mostly just polish so there is no more improvement.  Often that will be enough to make the handset shine again.  Again, they won't all shine to a gloss, but that method works very well and some do become glossy again.  There is still a lot of grime to come off the handset shown in example #1.

But it takes time.  I may spend an hour or more on just the handset and that doesn't count the caps.  It took 50 years to build up that crud---it doesn't give up easily.

The terry cloth cover on the Black & Decker in these pictures was a bit too large (as you can see).  Since I took these photos I stretched the covers that fit on the Ryobi over the disc.  The tight cover works much better.  Also shown is the Ryobi.  Home Depot has those for $19.95.

[Dan/Panther]

Dennis;
Do you use both buffers on Plastic sets also, and are they low speed, variable, or High speed ?
D/P

[Dennis Markham]

Yes Dan, I do use the Ryobi on the plastic housings.  I always give it a good working over by hand first, then use the buffer.  There are some spots that the buffer just can't reach.  The speeds are slow enough on those hand held units that they shouldn't burn the plastic.  Notice I said "shouldn't".  I have never burned the plastic using those two buffers I displayed.  On the other hand, I have a bench buffer that runs very fast and can melt plastic in a heart-beat.  Brian (BDM) has a document of tips from a long-time collector on the TCI about buffing.  I can't seem to locate it now.  Perhaps BDM will post those.

The Ryobi really does work well with the terry cloth pads.  It comes with one that ties on with strings.  That is no good as they come off constantly.  The replacement pads with an elastic band work great.  Those can be purchased in a package of 3 at WalMart in the automotive section.  I may have mentioned that before under a different topic.

[BDM]

Dennis, it's located in the list server archives. Can't remember how I found it. I'll look for it when I arrive home.

[Sargeguy]

They seem a little high this week for some reason.

[Babybearjs]

what really constitutes these prices. what is a 302 REALLY worth? what was the ORIGINAL price of one back in the 50's... does anyone know? this really bothers me, because I do research the going price of these phones to see if I should list some of mine... mike brown wants $199 for a 302A on oldphoneworks.com to nearly $1000 for a colored set.... what were these phoes originally worth? I guess the beauty is in the eye of the beholder....   interesting subject!   John

[Greg G.]

what really constitutes these prices. what is a 302 REALLY worth? what was the ORIGINAL price of one back in the 50's... does anyone know? this really bothers me, because I do research the going price of these phones to see if I should list some of mine... mike brown wants $199 for a 302A on oldphoneworks.com to nearly $1000 for a colored set.... what were these phoes originally worth? I guess the beauty is in the eye of the beholder....   interesting subject!   John

Back in the 50s you didn't buy them, you only rented them from Ma Bell.

[RDP]

Back in the days when I first started collecting phones (yes, they had phones back then) the 302's demanded a pretty high price. Nowadays you can literally pick them up for a song. Like everything in the world of antiques and collectibles, prices fluctuate a lot. What ever is in style at the time to a lot.
I used to collect vintage and antique small appliances and I've seen them drop to almost nothing in some cases. What was worth a buck then sometimes isn't worth picking up to throw away, it's a cry'en shame.

[GG]

Back in the 70s, AE 80Es were $17.90 direct from AE to the interconnects, probably $15 to the GTE operating companies.  Based on that, I'd say a new WE 500 was probably in the range of about $22 to the Bell operating companies, and extrapolating back, the 302s were probably about $20 in the 1950s, a relatively higher price since the assembly process was more labor-intensive.  All of this beyond the 80E is speculation, and might be worth its weight in recycled electrons.  Or not.  : - )

In the late 70s, "surplus" 302s (and AE 41s, Kellogg 1000s, and SC 1243s) were $9.95 "including 4-prong plug," and places that charged $14.95 for 'em were considered expensive. 

The thing that's a pain about the "orphan phones" listings on Ebay is that you can't tell if these are damaged (cracked housings) or merely dirty.  At least live flea markets enable you to inspect to see if something is damaged or not.  OTOH, damaged sets can be kept in stock for spare parts if needed. 

Question:

Does anyone here have a decent method for repairing cracks in Tenite housings?  I have viable methods for bakelite and other hard plastics, but not for soft plastic. 

[Kenny C]

On this invoice for a red 302 it was 20.00 to have it instaled

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2377.0

It is from 1953 so in 1953 20.00 in their money is equal to 158.61 in 2009 Thanks to the inflation calculator.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi