Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: bellsystemproperty on October 25, 2009, 07:31:42 PM

Title: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bellsystemproperty on October 25, 2009, 07:31:42 PM
Who has the newest 500 or any rotary phone? I understand Cortelco made 500s until 2007. My newest 500 off the top of my head is from 12-80. Pictures would be good. Is there any company, in any country, that you know of that still makes rotary phones.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Phonesrfun on October 25, 2009, 07:46:16 PM
I do not know the answer to your question from the standpoint of actually making rotary phones, and I presume the question was inferring that some country would have to make rotrary phones because they only have old rotary switches.  I just don't know, but I doubt it.

Supposedly, Cuba has been largely upgraded by other south American countries that it has friendly ties to.

It just gets down to cost.  It costs one HECK of a lot more to support, man, and maintain an old electromechanical switch.  By far less costly just to put in an electronic switch.

As to the phones themselves, nobody that I know of would continue to make a mechanical pulse dial.  They were mechanical and subject to becoming mal-adjusted and having issues with heat, moisture and dirt.

Many phones these days have the touch-tone keypad and a switch that can switch between tone and pulse.  However, so many have now even dropped the use of pulse as an option.  However, it is all done on a chip and not mechanically generated, so its not suceptible to dirt and moisture.  To a lesser degree heat and cold.

So, the short answer to your question is that I do not know of anyone making these dials.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bellsystemproperty on October 25, 2009, 08:27:32 PM
What rotary phone do you have that has was made most recently? Also, I saw a
"rotary phone" on Ebay. It looked like it had an actual dial that sent out tones and the dial had twelve holes, for star and pound. It was in pink, and looked like a 500. I don't know if it could be called an actual rotary phone, but it did look like the dial spun. It's still crap, since it was made in China.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: AET on October 25, 2009, 08:42:22 PM
I hadn't seen one of those yet. That would be a classic way to modern convenience.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Phonesrfun on October 25, 2009, 08:48:11 PM
I always thought those were buttons arranged around in a circle to look like a rotary dial, but I may be wrong.  Every once in a while someone will be trying to sell one of these an an antique on e-Bay, since the Crosley version of the 302 resembles the real thing.  I also think some sellers don't know the difference.

My most recent rotary is an ITT refurb dated 1987
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bellsystemproperty on October 25, 2009, 09:43:25 PM
Someday I am going to get a recent Cortelco 500 model. Then I can say this was the last rotary made. The one on Ebay I think did have a spin dial, but it sent out tones, not pulse, and had twelve holes. I imagine it is very poor quality.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on October 26, 2009, 12:33:08 AM
From what I've learned Cortelco made the final rotary phones.  The production was ended in December in 2006, so they had a good long run.  Why they were still being made in the era of smart phones and WiFi I don't know, perhaps they were popular with nostalgia minded folk or with companies that wanted a phone that the employees would not want to dial.

I have one of these late model Cortelcos, it was made in July of 2003 and was new in the box when I bought it last December off E-Bay.  I think I paid 25 bucks for it, but am not sure.  Interestingly, it follows the pattern of the late Western Electric 500s very closely, it is essentially made exactly the same way, with only the ringer being different.  (It's a Cortelco redesign from 1990 that they hold the patent on, still has the same double gongs but uses a magnet to move a steel ball to ring them)

It works great, and while it's clearly not up to the quality of a WE 500, it's still a nice phone.  Here is a picture:

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on October 26, 2009, 12:40:04 AM
Now my newest Western Electric 500 is an ivory model from 1984 that I bought new in 86'.  It's one of the CS500 models, intended for sale to the customer, and is built pretty much like any other late Bell System era 500.  The handset on this phone is dated 85', so I guess that by that point they were not exactly flying off the shelves. 

I think I paid about 20 dollars for it.  They had all the colors to pick from, I liked ivory because my folks had one and so it was familiar.  Now I wish I'd bought several of them in different colors. 

Here are a couple of pics of it:

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bellsystemproperty on October 26, 2009, 10:00:37 AM
It is weird that Cortelco made them for that long. They still make the 2500, and with bell ringers.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: gpo706 on October 26, 2009, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: McHeath on October 26, 2009, 12:33:08 AM
I think I paid 25 bucks for it, but am not sure. 

Yeah, yeah thats what I tell them too when a another big parcel appears at the door... LOL
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: phoneguy06 on October 27, 2009, 01:18:10 PM
Given that we're on the subject of new 500s once again, I might as well chime in and re-post base plate and components pictures as well, along with a shot or two of my 2003 red Cortelco 500 set. Incidentally, only once on eBay have I ever seen a Cortelco 500 AS, which are the very last 500s entirely manufactured and assembled in Asia.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on October 27, 2009, 03:33:53 PM
Yah I think your ash Cortelco 500 and mine are from that same lot on E-Bay last year, if memory serves.  (or maybe I'm forgetting exactly) 

I like that bright red 500, isn't it dated the same, July of 2003?  Maybe they only made 500s in batches by then, so July of that year was when they made the years allotment of them.  I've planning to buy their dialless 500 they still make, it's also red, when I get a few bucks ahead.  I wrote the factory once about buying parts from them, but they referred me to their distributers to buy goods.

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: phoneguy06 on October 27, 2009, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: McHeath on October 27, 2009, 03:33:53 PM
Yah I think your ash Cortelco 500 and mine are from that same lot on E-Bay last year, if memory serves.  (or maybe I'm forgetting exactly) 

I like that bright red 500, isn't it dated the same, July of 2003?  Maybe they only made 500s in batches by then, so July of that year was when they made the years allotment of them.  I've planning to buy their dialless 500 they still make, it's also red, when I get a few bucks ahead.  I wrote the factory once about buying parts from them, but they referred me to their distributers to buy goods.



My 2003 ash Cortelco is indeed from the same lot as yours, they were the ones that were sold for $20 each by StarTech Tel on eBay last December. The red one is interesting in that it came in a box for another ash VCH 500 from July 2003, and even the base plate label indicates that it should be the ash phone. Only the case is stamped "Cortelco" as the handset simply has a blank space where either the company name or the volume-control thumbwheel would have been; even more interesting is the fact that the handset is obviously from the same mould as the VCH, given that the mid-section of it pops off as if it were the VCH. All in all, it's an intriguing hybrid set that definitely indicates that Cortelco was simply using up what it had left at the time as production in the U.S. wound down.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: AET on October 27, 2009, 06:17:23 PM
So, who was buying these in the 21st century besides us?
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bellsystemproperty on October 27, 2009, 06:38:13 PM
The red 500 is very nice. It would be cool if Cortelco reintroduced the 500, but with something like the Dialgizmo built inside it so that it would work for those on voip.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Kenny C on February 19, 2010, 12:48:58 AM
My newest 500 is a 1969 ITT
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: foots on February 19, 2010, 11:31:40 AM
My newest 500 is an '80 ITT. A little off topic but I also have a Cortelco 554 from 1999.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bingster on February 19, 2010, 05:03:02 PM
I think my newest is a 1973 refurbished 500.  My newest untouched 500 would probably be a 1958.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 19, 2010, 09:39:06 PM
Tee hee.... I don't have a new 500.  They're all old.  Like me.

-Bill Geurts
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on February 20, 2010, 01:24:30 AM
Legend has it that the final 500s were made in Dec 2006 by Cortelco.  I've not found one, and have noticed that the only 21st century 500s I've seen were all made in July of 2003.  Perhaps they were made in batches, and the final batch was the July 03's.  

And Cortelco still makes a dial-less 500, in bright red only, at least that's what they claim on their website, I've never seen one. 
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Kenny C on February 20, 2010, 09:47:25 PM
my newest is 1972
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: benhutcherson on February 21, 2010, 08:20:27 PM
I'll have to dig it out and check the dates, but I have a beige 554 with the shell stamped AT&T. I don't recall the exact dates, but I believe the components were late '70s/early '80s.

I've also had a handful of fairly new ITT 500 sets, although I've not had anything new enough to have the new style ringer. One, I recall, had a green Walmart price tag still on the bottom. This same one was hardwired, but used a modular handset shell.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: AET on February 22, 2010, 03:16:57 AM
My newest is a manual style with a seperate touch tone keypad, dated 1987
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: gpo706 on February 22, 2010, 05:01:21 PM
I thought my PTI/Palco ivory was my "newest" well bits of it are - here'e the 3 500's I have:

Black - C/D 500 CONV, Network: 10/59 - Michigan Bell
Red - 500 DM 8/80, Network: 7/53 - So. Ne Eng**el Co (?)
Ivory - 69413, Network = 60 - New Brunswick Telecom

So I suppose the "newest" is the Ivory, but no date on it, then the refurb red Aug 1980, then my hard worked black set.

BUT, when you look at the networks...!





Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dave F on October 27, 2010, 12:45:31 PM
There has been plenty of discussion about old 500 sets, but I was wondering:  Just who among us has the latest WE 500, and when exactly did the last one roll off the production line?
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Russ Kirk on October 27, 2010, 01:25:23 PM
Well,  due the decline in quality I have not actively collected newer sets.  The newest I have (forgive me) is not a rotary,  but a WE 2500MMGJ.  No dates anywhere but inside the case, 1986.

I have to say it is the poorest quality I have ever seen in WE/ATT equipment.  When I opened the set, unlike most other sets, it literally fell apart in my hands. The screws fell on the floor and the TT pad and spring fell.

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dan/Panther on October 27, 2010, 02:18:58 PM
WOW !! Russ  that phone is a work of art.
D/P
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Greg G. on October 27, 2010, 02:27:44 PM
Latest dated WE 500 I have is a 65.  (That's not including 500 style phones made by SC or others from later dates).  I generally don't go beyond the 60s for any phone, because once they were reduced to just an appliance sold to the end user, the quality went to crap, as Russkirk pointed out.  In fact, I'm thinking of thinning out my herd of all the 70s stuff.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on October 27, 2010, 02:35:06 PM
65?  I have phones in my collection made by Western Electric dated as late as 1979.  To my eyes, they still appear to be of high-quality Western Electric standards.

I agree when AT&T phone manufacturing went off-shore, the sets became worthless.  But that happened decades after 1965...
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on October 27, 2010, 02:50:24 PM
But, I'd seriously like to know the answer to the original question, too.

Russkirk's set looks like fun, but it's not a 500D.  It's an AT&T phone that was made in the style of a 500 set, and it's touch tone.

So, when was the actual last date a rotary phone was made in the US by Western Electric with the model number 500D?
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Greg G. on October 27, 2010, 03:04:09 PM
Quote from: masstel on October 27, 2010, 02:35:06 PM
65?  I have phones in my collection made by Western Electric dated as late as 1979.  To my eyes, they still appear to be of high-quality Western Electric standards.

I agree when AT&T phone manufacturing went off-shore, the sets became worthless.  But that happened decades after 1965...

The latest dated I have in my collection is a 65.  I didn't say that they were no good after that, or they (WE) didn't make them after that, just that I generally limit my purchases to the 60s and earlier.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Kenny C on October 27, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
1965
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on October 27, 2010, 04:14:48 PM
Quote from: Brinybay on October 27, 2010, 03:04:09 PM
I didn't say that they were no good after that, or they (WE) didn't make them after that, just that I generally limit my purchases to the 60s and earlier.

Sorry I misunderstood you.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Just4Phones on October 27, 2010, 08:09:10 PM
These are my newest hardwireds.  They are dated 1970/1975

This is my newest modular.  It's dated 1977
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on October 27, 2010, 08:13:16 PM
just4, that's a pretty phone!  As I said the other day in another thread, I'm currently enamored with WE yellow...
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Just4Phones on October 27, 2010, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: masstel on October 27, 2010, 08:13:16 PM
just4, that's a pretty phone!  As I said the other day in another thread, I'm currently enamored with WE yellow...

Thanks.  I am partial to yellow as well ;)  I just got this one which is currently my new favorite.  And it lights up :P  It has princess guts
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Just4Phones on October 27, 2010, 08:24:57 PM
Here is some more yellows ;)

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dave F on October 27, 2010, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: masstel on October 27, 2010, 02:50:24 PM
But, I'd seriously like to know the answer to the original question, too.

Russkirk's set looks like fun, but it's not a 500D.  It's an AT&T phone that was made in the style of a 500 set, and it's touch tone.

So, when was the actual last date a rotary phone was made in the US by Western Electric with the model number 500D?

Yes, the original question concerns only rotary-dial 500 sets made in a U.S. factory by Western Electric.  We know that 2500s lived on in varying degrees of shoddiness well after the breakup, but what about the rotary sets?  I have a few from the late 1970s, but will have to dig them out to verify actual dates.  What about the 80s?  Weren't there some special colors (e.g. Country Blue, etc) still being produced into the mid 80s?
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dave F on October 27, 2010, 09:13:56 PM
Quote from: Russkirk on October 27, 2010, 01:25:23 PM
Well,  due the decline in quality I have not actively collected newer sets.  The newest I have (forgive me) is not a rotary,  but a WE 2500MMGJ.  No dates anywhere but inside the case, 1986.

I have to say it is the poorest quality I have ever seen in WE/ATT equipment.  When I opened the set, unlike most other sets, it literally fell apart in my hands. The screws fell on the floor and the TT pad and spring fell.



Welcome to the brave new world of deregulation and customer-provided telephone repair.  Sheds a whole new positive light on the word "Monopoly", doesn't it?!
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dave F on October 27, 2010, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: Just4Phones on October 27, 2010, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: masstel on October 27, 2010, 08:13:16 PM
just4, that's a pretty phone!  As I said the other day in another thread, I'm currently enamored with WE yellow...

Thanks.  I am partial to yellow as well ;)  I just got this one which is currently my new favorite.  And it lights up :P  It has princess guts
I realize this is off-topic for this thread, but here is a yellow 1500.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Just4Phones on October 28, 2010, 08:10:57 PM
Quote from: Dave F on October 27, 2010, 09:10:09 PM
[Yes, the original question concerns only rotary-dial 500 sets made in a U.S. factory by Western Electric.  We know that 2500s lived on in varying degrees of shoddiness well after the breakup, but what about the rotary sets?  I have a few from the late 1970s, but will have to dig them out to verify actual dates.  What about the 80s?  Weren't there some special colors (e.g. Country Blue, etc) still being produced into the mid 80s?

Sorry but I didn't realize I went off topic or misunderstood the topic.   I do beg to differ however as none of the phones I pictured are "shoddy" and every one is a high quality Western Electric telephone that I am proud to own.  The Decotel is not "shoddy" either. 
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: bingster on October 28, 2010, 08:34:40 PM
The Western Electric branded phones are high quality items, but Dave meant specifically the phones made after the breakup in 1984.  Those aren't branded Western Electric, and are much lower quality.  Not yours--the newer ones.

So the newest rotary we've got in the thread so far is 1979?  Anybody have one made between 1979 and 1984?

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Kenny C on October 29, 2010, 02:08:34 AM
i forgot I have a modular one from 1982
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dan on October 29, 2010, 06:59:12 AM
If you mean a rotary and not a touchtone, mine is a 1984 with 1956 innards. It was a buck at a yard sale.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dave F on October 29, 2010, 05:01:10 PM
Quote from: bingster on October 28, 2010, 08:34:40 PM
The Western Electric branded phones are high quality items, but Dave meant specifically the phones made after the breakup in 1984.  Those aren't branded Western Electric, and are much lower quality.  Not yours--the newer ones.
Yes, please don't misunderstand what I meant: I love WE 2500s.  I think they're great.  The shoddiness I was referring to concerns only those later non-WE sets that came out of Asia after the breakup of Ma Bell.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on October 29, 2010, 11:22:07 PM
Here is my late model Western Electric 500 in ivory.  I bought it new in 1986 from a store in the LA area.  It's a mixture of dates really, the chassis is dated late 1984 while the handset receiver is dated 9/9/1985.  The transmitter is dated 1985 but has no month and day stamp.  Other than a few changes here and there, most notably the network is the simplified 4293, the build quality is not all that lowered yet.  Here are some snaps:

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on October 29, 2010, 11:41:09 PM
The picture of the handset shows the foam insert that replaced the cotton ball as an "acoustic dampener" at some point in the late production era. 

In 1986 the production was shipped overseas and the quality totally changed.  I've got a 1987 AT&T 2500 that is very different internally, cheap plastic hookswitch attached to the shell, touch tone pad has an integrated network and both are attached to the bottom of the faceplate and held on by screws under the phone number card.  Plastic chassis. 

My 2003 Cortelco 500 is much better made than the overseas production AT&T 2500s I've seen from the late 80's and 90's. 
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on November 02, 2010, 10:39:58 PM
Here's a chance for someone to get in on this contest:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160501541332

It's a 503CMW, Buy It Now for $45 with free shipping! :)

Myself, I'm still holding out for a 21st Century 500 from Cortelco. They were made here locally. Lighter and cheaper than WE 500's of yore, but a heck of a lot better-made than the crap Walmart peddles these days.

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on November 02, 2010, 10:44:51 PM
You near Cornith Miss?  I'd like to scrounge about in their warehouse, bet there are some goodies in there.

My 2003 Cortelo 500 was an E-Bay BIN find a couple of years ago.  Nice phone really, not all that cheapened compared to what is being offered elsewhere in phoneland these days.  Occasionally you can find a newer Cortelco rotary on E-bay, search under the brand name and not specifically in phones. 
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on November 03, 2010, 07:38:16 PM
I'm about a two-hour drive from there. We go through there on occasion, but I've never been to their plant. My dad used to run a plastics injection molding factory and he considered making some parts for them once, but I don't think he got the job.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: GG on February 17, 2011, 04:04:11 AM


I think I might just win this one:

March 2006 Cortelco 500.  I have two of these; here's the info from one of them: 

The sticker on the bottom of the set includes the following:

050044-VBA-20M   3/06  HAC
Has FCC reg numbers, and a patent notice about the ringer.
Says "Assembled in USA with pride" and has a UL mark on it as well.

The date on the sticker on the box is 01/06, so it's likely the boxes were produced earlier and then the phones were produced and boxed up later. 

The external appearance is identical to the 2003 Cortelco in McHeath's picture.  Except for one little thing that's almost impossible to notice:  The dial number plate is just a bit closer to beige than the ash color of the rest of the housing and handset shell. 

Also the dial tends to be "difficult" to dial, as if the one-way clutch spring in the governor mechanism is so new that it hasn't had the chance to loosen up quite yet, but I'm not going to try to force it. 

I have a couple of wild ideas about where a few more might be hiding out, so I'm going to go looking around.  If I come up with anything, I'll post about it, and find a way to get some into the hands of people who really want them. 

Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 14, 2011, 05:21:32 AM
I am proud to say I am now in the 21st Century 500 Club! I've been looking for months, and finally, here is my Cortelco 500, dated 9-01! It's not the newest out there, but it's certainly the newest rotary I've ever seen. This purdy thing just arrove today from Chattanooga (Soddy-Daisy, to be precise). It looks just like all the other ash-colored Cortelco 500s I've seen pictures of, so there's nothing really individual to point out about it, but here are a couple pictures of it. It's been very gently used and is perhaps the second-shiniest telephone in my collection.

By the way, an honorable mention ITT Cortelco 500 from 1998 just sold a couple weeks ago on eBay, I noticed.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on June 14, 2011, 09:59:02 AM
Very cool, Dee!   I love this thread!

My newest rotary doesn't compare to yours, but I believe mine is among the newest of the last metal-based Western Electric 500s.  It is a NIB red CS500DM dated 83139 (5-83).  It's got the wonderful Bell-Logo inscribed finger wheel (like the phone in the pic below from my collection of photos stolen borrowed from eBay), which is why I bought it originally, but nowadays I'm happy I have the whole set!
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 15, 2011, 01:13:40 AM
Thanks! :) I do have one question, though: This thing does not mute the receiver when I dial. Is that normal? I've looked at the contacts on the dial and it appears to be made to actually make a circuit when the dial is turned rather than break one.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on June 15, 2011, 10:25:50 AM
It should absolutely mute when the dial is pulsing.

The make contact you see is the mute contact, it shorts across the receiver when the dial is in motion.  That contact will be connected to two white wires.  Those white wires should be connected to the same places the white wires from the receiver are connected to. If they are and it still isn't muting, then either the make contact really isn't making, or one of the white dial wires is broken.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 15, 2011, 01:02:33 PM
Okay, well, the sound in the receiver softens just a bit, but by no means does it mute to the extent of any other phone I own. I can still perfectly hear the dial tone until the first digit completes or any other noise that might be coming from the other end of the line. The pulses aren't painful, but they are quite loud in the receiver.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on June 15, 2011, 02:32:37 PM
Perhaps close-up pics of the inside of the phone and the back of the dial may help us know more...
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: dsk on June 16, 2011, 11:22:16 AM
What is the differences?
Regarding the pictures of the Cortelco:
I see a much more compact ringer, I see a printboard, but how about the parts interchangeability, May the ringer sound as the old ones? Could you put it into an old one? The transmitter  is it carbon? T1? How is the wiring diagram? Why that fuse??

dsk
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 16, 2011, 01:56:01 PM
The ringer sounds no different from a C4A than one C4A sounds from another C4A. The gongs are the same pitches, just reversed left to right. It's absolutely beautiful. The ringer mounting has the same dimensions as the one on my 1970 S-C 500, so it should interchange perfectly. The only difference is that the Cortelco ringer only needs two screws instead of three as its compact size means there is no coil in behind the hook switch. In fact, it pretty much looks like any component would interchange with my 1970 S-C 500. But my 1956 WE 500 is significantly different in places.

Now for the matter of the dial contacts: The wire colors are the same as any other 500's dial that I've seen: White, white, blue, and red. The contacts that supposedly short the receiver are white and white and they go to G and R on the network. The contacts are making perfect contact when the dial is in an unrested position, but the receiver is only slightly softened rather than almost completely muted. Here are pictures of the back of the dial showing the contacts open and closed:
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 16, 2011, 03:39:53 PM
There could be two reasons for the lack of muting.

1.  The contacts, while appearing to be closing all the way may not, in fact be closing.  Run a business card or some kind of thick paper through the contacts to wipe them of any dirt.  Do this while the contacts are pinched together.

2.  One of the white wires may be partially broken at the point of contact with the spade tip and has a high resistance.  If that is the case, the spade tip may need replacing.

Item number 1 is the more likely of the two.  Contacts should only be cleaned with something like a business card or other course paper like a paper bag from the super market.  Do not use a file or anything like that, as it can take the metal plating off the contacts that is intended to prevent arcing when the contacts open and close.  Spray-on contact cleaner from Radio Shack is fine to use.

The normally-open gap of the muting springs seems to be abnormally wide, which may contribute to it not closing all the way, if that is the case.  You could use a pair of needle-nosed pliers and carefully bend the coarse spring slightly towards the spring that opens and closes from the action of the pawl on the main gear.  That could help it close better.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on June 16, 2011, 04:23:23 PM
It's also very cool, IMHO, that the 2001-vintage Cortelco 500 still has an internal part inside the dial that is branded "ITT".
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: deedubya3800 on July 04, 2011, 12:52:49 AM
I've checked this out, and nope, it's not a problem with the contacts or the wires at all. I've tried directly jumping GN to R, and I get the same result. It doesn't completely mute the receiver; it just softens it slightly. Does anyone else have one of these Cortelco 500s that can corroborate my findings?
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on July 10, 2011, 12:34:50 AM
So clearly I've missed a few things around here. ;D

QuoteI think I might just win this one:

March 2006 Cortelco 500.  I have two of these; here's the info from one of them: 

The sticker on the bottom of the set includes the following:

050044-VBA-20M   3/06  HAC
Has FCC reg numbers, and a patent notice about the ringer.
Says "Assembled in USA with pride" and has a UL mark on it as well.

The date on the sticker on the box is 01/06, so it's likely the boxes were produced earlier and then the phones were produced and boxed up later. 

The external appearance is identical to the 2003 Cortelco in McHeath's picture.  Except for one little thing that's almost impossible to notice:  The dial number plate is just a bit closer to beige than the ash color of the rest of the housing and handset shell. 

Okay wow, an almost end of production model 500!  Way cool!  I really kinda thought they were mythical, that nothing past 2003 was actually made, but you've gone and got one. 

Also:

QuoteI've checked this out, and nope, it's not a problem with the contacts or the wires at all. I've tried directly jumping GN to R, and I get the same result. It doesn't completely mute the receiver; it just softens it slightly. Does anyone else have one of these Cortelco 500s that can corroborate my findings?

My 2003 Cortelco 500 does not mute the dial either.  And it was fresh out of the box when I opened it a couple of years ago.  I piddled around with contacts and such, moving this to here and there, nothing helped.  I assume that the network that Cortelco makes does not have the capability to mute the dial clicks.

Alas.


Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on July 10, 2011, 03:01:12 AM
Quote from: McHeath on July 10, 2011, 12:34:50 AM
My 2003 Cortelco 500 does not mute the dial either ...  I assume that the network that Cortelco makes does not have the capability to mute the dial clicks.

If that's true, it should be relatively simple to examine the schematic of the classic 500 network, figure out which component(s) is missing and add it to the circuit.  It's probably just like one diode and/or capacitor or something.

Weird. But it makes sense.  I seem to recall reading in some BSP somewhere that in the later production Western Electric networks, there were two styles, one for rotary phones and one for touch tone sets.  If I've retained the proper brain cells, I believe the difference was in the area of where the rotary dial contacts were connected (contacts F and RR).

So, in that later time period, if Western Electric had two different networks, it's very possible that ITT/Cortelco did too.  It seems that in the later years of Cortelco's production, at some point they had stopped making the rotary variation of their network, even though they were still making rotary sets.

I'll try to remember what BSP that was in...
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Adam on July 10, 2011, 03:12:54 AM
Ah I found it.  See attached.

Important things to note pertinent to this discussion:

Bottom of page 2: where it explains the 425D network is intended for use in rotary dial equipped sets

Bottom of page 4: on the 425K network, the dial pulse capacitor at terminal F is omitted, and it is intended for touch-tone equipped sets.

So, I bet you these later Cortelco networks are missing the capacitor between terminal F and the resistor that goes to RR (see fig. 5 in the attachment).
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on July 11, 2011, 12:32:22 AM
Makes sense.  I will pull my Cortelco apart and see what the situation is on the network. 
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Michael Dennis on October 21, 2012, 12:03:34 PM
Hi everyone, I'm new here. Don't know zip about phones, yet. I have a red 500DM, I think, as well as a green, blue, black and beige example. Don't know anything more, they're in an area I can't get to now, I'm having to address a water problem in the basement, rainwater comes in anytime it rains hard so everything is pulled away from the walls and there's a lot of stuff down there. Can hardly walk around.

I have maybe a half dozen older phones too. The forum looks like THE place to learn. Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

Mike
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on October 23, 2012, 11:36:42 PM
Hi Michael and welcome.  On the bottom of the phones there are usually numbers that gives dates made.  Older date codes are usually "2-66" format, meaning Feb 1966.  Newer ones are more like "78249" which means 1978, the 249 day of that year. 

And some don't have marks as they've been removed or what not.  There are usually dates someplace inside as well.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Michael Dennis on October 25, 2012, 10:06:03 AM
Hi McHeath. Thanks very much for the welcome! Mine reads 9-79 on the bottom. At the moment I can't reach the others, I've got stuff pulled out in my basement. Like an obstacle course down there right now. :D

Mike
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: George Knighton on February 10, 2013, 07:59:03 AM
I have an ivory AT&T 515BM that I bought evidently NOS, recently.

The base is marked 82040, and the shell is marked (84).

It's in use, actually, and does pretty well.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: southernphoneman on March 26, 2013, 04:10:23 PM
currently my newest 500 is my 1982 white western electric which as some of you may already know is up for auctuion on ebay. I don t have this phone anymore as it has recently sold on ebay.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Babybearjs on July 22, 2014, 02:25:02 PM
how can anyone really rely on the dates... on my phones, bases get switched, shells get changed and so on... so all the dates change... and the phone isint an "Original" anymore. and of course, I can always REMARK the date if I wanted to....
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: andre_janew on December 01, 2014, 06:00:44 PM
When did they stop making the dial-less telephones?  I have a black 1962 500C telephone and want to know if it could be the newest manual phone.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: paul-f on December 01, 2014, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: andre_janew on December 01, 2014, 06:00:44 PM
When did they stop making the dial-less telephones?  I have a black 1962 500C telephone and want to know if it could be the newest manual phone.

You can buy one today.


An internet search for "no dial phone" or "courtesy phone" will give you many options.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: andre_janew on December 02, 2014, 08:24:26 PM
I see what you mean.  Cortell, Viking, and SciTech all make no dial phones.  They have wall and desk models.  They have them in red, ash, and black.  I had no idea that they still make such phones.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Partyline4 on October 05, 2015, 10:57:05 PM
Quote from: Babybearjs on July 22, 2014, 02:25:02 PM
how can anyone really rely on the dates... on my phones, bases get switched, shells get changed and so on... so all the dates change... and the phone isint an "Original" anymore. and of course, I can always REMARK the date if I wanted to....

So that's where all those date matching rarity's are coming from.....

:)

BTW I have a white model 500 that has the date code 83139

So....1983.....

I have a 554 from 1984; months after the baby bells were born with date code 84086
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: b3tamax11 on May 24, 2016, 11:10:56 PM
Not a 500 set, but I have a Northern Telecom 2500 set from 1984. I'm not sure when NT/Nortel actually stopped making these sets.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: andre_janew on June 10, 2016, 06:54:54 PM
What would be the newest 500 set possible?  By that I mean the newest possible set made by any company.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: McHeath on September 09, 2016, 12:36:54 AM
My understanding is that Cortelco made the last ones in 2006.  Used to think it was in 07', but I've heard that was wrong. 
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dominic_ContempraPhones on June 30, 2017, 05:11:51 PM
I thought it was us in 1984.  I have one of the last ones made by NT.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Dominic_ContempraPhones on July 02, 2017, 09:22:40 AM
Cortelco continued to make 2500s, but not 500s, until the early 2000s.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: poplar1 on July 02, 2017, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Dominic_ContempraPhones on July 02, 2017, 09:22:40 AM
Cortelco continued to make 2500s, but not 500s, until the early 2000s.

Cortelco still sells 2500s and 2554s.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: mentalstampede on July 02, 2017, 11:19:32 AM
I have a Cortelco 554 with a dial blank from the mid '90s.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: Victor Laszlo on July 02, 2017, 01:57:25 PM
From the Cortelco website, in the area of a page that states their address:

Country:USA
City:Corinth
Address:1703 Sawyer Rd
Email:info@cortelco.com

They seem to have forgotten to tell us the name of the state, and the ZIP (zone improvement plan) code. I guess, along with the demise of LD (loop disconnect) telephones, the new generation of web wranglers assumes that no one needs to use the USPS  (United States Postal Service), either.
Title: Re: Who among us has the newest WE 500? And newer non-WE 500 types?
Post by: TelePlay on July 02, 2017, 02:07:45 PM
Quote from: Victor Laszlo on July 02, 2017, 01:57:25 PM
From the Cortelco website, in the area of a page that states their address:

Country:USA
City:Corinth
Address:1703 Sawyer Rd
Email:info@cortelco.com

They seem to have forgotten to tell us the name of the state, and the ZIP (zone improvement plan) code. I guess, along with the demise of LD (loop disconnect) telephones, the new generation of web wranglers assumes that no one needs to use the USPS  (United States Postal Service), either.

According to Google Maps, Cortelco Inc. is at 1703 Sawyer Rd in Corinth, MS  38834

Phone number:  (662) 287-5281