2500 keypad wiring

[MaximRecoil]

That was always my opinion as well.
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  I think it had to do with the plates of the core of the coil, and the permanent magnet. The plates shouldn't be shifted and the magnet need to be installed in the same polarity as before.
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Well, I didn't touch the magnet. I'm not even sure where in the ringer assembly the magnet is located. The plates shouldn't have changed position because I screwed them back down into the same mounting holes that they were originally screwed to. I might try loosening the screws, and then while it's trying to ring, shift the plates around to see if I can find a spot where it rings. This is a plastic framed ringer so the mounting holes aren't as precise/immovable as with metal mounting holes with machined threads like on the WE ringer, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Edit: That did the trick. One of the mounting holes is a little sloppy so as you tighten or loosen the mounting screw the plates shift to the left and right slightly. As it was ringing I could turn the screw and make it ring and stop ringing as I was turning it. What a piece of junk. Not only do plastic-framed ringers sound bad, but they can have this issue too.

[TelePlay]

     Regular Member Post

Here is the forum about ringers becoming demagnitized when taken apart:

     Ringer Loses Magnetism When it is Disassembled

There was a newer topic started some 5 years later about rejuvenating a weak ringer magnet.

     Anyone know anything about re magnetizing a C4A ringer?

IIRC, the amount of loss is dependent on how long the ringer is apart, a quick switch is better than letting the parts sit for hours. I also seem to remember this is also a problem with B1A ringers if taken apart without using a magnet keeper when the coils are removed.

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As for re-soldering the magnet wire to the ringer leads, while I was given credit for the tip, the credit really goes to Jeff Lamb, ktownphoneco, who made me aware of this when I had a 600 subset type ringer that was dead. As he explained to me, to save time when first made by WE, the magnet wire was just cut and soldered to the ringer wire. To save assembly time, the sides of the magnet wire were not stripped of their varnish or enamel so that only the end cross section of the very thin wire would bond to the solder, make the joint. Over time, with temperature changes, the magnet wire within the solder joint would shrink in length and after time could cause that very small cross section of the magnet wire to break free from the solder leaving the magnet wire inside of the varnish or enamel coating tube insulating it from the solder. Re-soldering such a joint would again bond the magnet wire with the solder and the ringer wire creating a near resistance free circuit.

That's how Jeff explained it to me months ago and if I said anything wrong in the above paragraph, Jeff, please reply with a correction.

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There is ton of such repair and restoration information on the forum that can be found using the "Search" function. I got over 400 hits using the search terms "ringer magnet" and the two links above were in the top 20 hits, there may be more but these are the two as I remember most closely addressed this problem of ringer de-magnification.

Try using "Search," you might find it very useful.

[poplar1]

Quote:   E1 -  White/blue dial wire
                     Black line cord wire

E1 substitute for S --black line cord wire serves no function, so you effectively have only one wire (w/b dial wire).
Need to add the other wires on S as shown in 502-523-401 i8 Figure 4: red hookswitch + green (or white) receiver.

[poplar1]

For wiring the type 72 dial I used the information from this post:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16168.msg167571#msg167571

There was a part I wasn't sure of though. In the summary it says:

"(3) Move black handset wire from R to B"

Table was correct: move black handset wire from  B to T.
See the corrections to your wiring (on left) added below on right side of the blue block

But at the bottom of the post it indicates that, for a type 72 dial, the black handset wire goes on T. I tried it on both B and what I was substituting for T (E2), and it didn't make any difference.

Another thing: when you dial, the tones are quite loud through the receiver; significantly louder than normal. It sounds like the maximum volume that a receiver can output.

Here's how it's currently wired:

Network Terminals

R  -  Red/green dial wire
      Red handset wire
      Green handset wire------------------------------------------------this should be on S (your E1)
       Slate/red hook switch wire-----------------------------move to E1                                                                                 

GN -  White dial wire-------------------------------------------------this should be the only wire on the GN terminal
      White handset wire-----------------------------------------------goes to R
      Slate/black hook switch wire-------------------------------------goes to R

F  -  Green dial wire
      Slate/white hook switch wire

E1 -  White/blue dial wire
      Black line cord wire----------------------------------------------remove (no function). Add green handset wire + slate-red hk-sw

K  -  Red ringer wire

G  -  Yellow line cord wire

L1 -  Slate/green hook switch wire
      Green line cord wire
      Black ringer wire

L2 -  Jumper wire to terminal "A"
      Red line cord wire
      Slate/yellow hook switch wire
      Slate hook switch wire

A  -  Jumper wire to terminal "L2"

RR -  Black dial wire

C  -  Orange/black dial wire

B  -  Blue dial wire

E2 -  Red dial wire------------------------------------------------------------E2 is T on WE diagram
      Black handset wire-------------------------------------------------------E2 is T on WE diagram

Dial Terminal

D  -  Slate/brown hook switch wire

[poplar1]

See figure 4:  (Disregard ringer connections since the diagram is for a 4-wire C4A ringer)

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=502-523-401+i8

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bsp-bell-system-practices-by-doc/bsp-categories-by-later-division-number-by-doc/500-529-station-equipment/502-division-station-sets-common-battery/11255-502-523-401-i8-may82-2500d-dm-dmg?highlight=WyI1MDItNTIzLTQwMSIsImk4IiwiNTAyLTUyMy00MDEgaTgiXQ==

[MaximRecoil]

     Regular Member Post

Here is the forum about ringers becoming demagnitized when taken apart:

     Ringer Loses Magnetism When it is Disassembled

There was a newer topic started some 5 years later about rejuvenating a weak ringer magnet.

     Anyone know anything about re magnetizing a C4A ringer?

IIRC, the amount of loss is dependent on how long the ringer is apart, a quick switch is better than letting the parts sit for hours. I also seem to remember this is also a problem with B1A ringers if taken apart without using a magnet keeper when the coils are removed.

Thanks for the links.

I left the SC coil out of its ringer overnight, while the WE coil was only away from the ringer for 10 minutes or so, so I guess that's what made the difference. This is the first I'm hearing of a permanent magnet losing strength so quickly. Like I said in my previous post, I can get it to ring by turning one of the mounting screws which shifts it a bit to one side, but it's a weak ring.

[MaximRecoil]

Table was correct: move black handset wire from  B to T.
See the corrections to your wiring (on left) added below on right side of the blue block

Those corrections worked great; thank you very much. The touch-tones are now at a normal volume in the receiver. The only problem is: there's only one E1 terminal, which can only accommodate two spade lugs, and I need to put three wires there (white/blue dial wire, slate/red hook switch wire, and green handset wire). That's just one of a few reasons that I prefer WE's screw terminals to ITT's and SC's QD terminals.

I don't see any other unused blind terminal that I can use instead, much less two of them in parallel in order to accommodate three spade lugs. I suppose I could just use a small bolt and nut to clamp all three together and put some heat shrink tubing over it, and not bother with the E1 terminal at all.

[poplar1]

Looks like the E1 has 2 connectors that take 2 spade tips each = 4 wires.

[MaximRecoil]

Looks like the E1 has 2 connectors that take 2 spade tips each = 4 wires.

I only see one E1 terminal:

[Protel8000]

That metal dial pad does look good!

[poplar1]

I only see one E1 terminal:

You are correct. G has two. Use E1 for the yellow  line cord wire and G for the "S" terminal.

[MaximRecoil]

You are correct. G has two. Use E1 for the yellow  line cord wire and G for the "S" terminal.

Okay, I was wondering if I could use G as a blind terminal. I removed the yellow line cord wire altogether, because like the black line cord wire, it doesn't do anything, at least not in my application. None of my phone jacks in this house even have the black and yellow wires hooked up.

[poplar1]

L1, L2, G, E1, E2, S, T are all blind terminals.

[MaximRecoil]

L1, L2, G, E1, E2, S, T are all blind terminals.

That's good to know, thanks. I knew that all of those were blind terminals except for G.

[RotoTech99]

From, RotoTech99:

The ITT 32OPG and SC 35A3AP older tone dials did INDEED have a polarity guard circuit built into the dial.

I used to use those as replacements for WE 35 types that had unexpectedly failed; the tricky part was because each dial had a slightly different number of leads,  I had  to use trial and error to figure out the appropriate wiring to allow it to operate.

RotoTech99