Now I must figure out how to make the volume a little louder on my WE 202. The receiver sounds lower since the mini network installation and people I talk to on it say that my voice is very low. Hmmm...? Any suggestions?
If it has a F handset, you could swap it to a F that takes the G elements. This should work.
Jim
That is interesting, because whe I did the mini network on my 202, I found just the opposite. the volume in the receiver was a little louder than normal, in part because the way it is connected, it does bypass part of the equalization circuit. The F1 handset should work fine
Can you look carefully at the way you have it wired and post the exact connections, or take a couple of photos? Have you changed the wiring inside the base of the phone from the original photo you shared?
If you don't have the latest edition of Old-Time Telephones hopefully Bill can back me up on this. Go to page 206 first, and then page 184. On page 206 in the middle of the 2nd paragraph of "Desk Stand Implants" Ralph says to clip out the Blue wire and the two resistors that go to it. They are the 820 & 1000 ohm resistors. Looking at your mini network they will be the two resistors hiding under the purple capacitor. Page 184 shows the network schematic and where the Blue wire & two resistors fit in to the circuit.
I did not change any of the wiring since the picture was posted. The network is hooked up exactly as pictured in the schematic (except for the red network wire on mine is black). I noticed before I installed the network that the phone would pick up a dial tone when plugged in and the dial tone was very clear and plenty loud. But not now. I wish I had tried to speak with someone on an incoming call when it was like that. It would establish if the mouthpiece element was bad. I will try to post pics later.
Quote from: Wallphone on October 09, 2010, 07:24:19 PM
If you don't have the latest edition of Old-Time Telephones hopefully Bill can back me up on this. Go to page 206 first, and then page 184. On page 206 in the middle of the 2nd paragraph of "Desk Stand Implants" Ralph says to clip out the Blue wire and the two resistors that go to it. They are the 820 & 1000 ohm resistors. Looking at your mini network they will be the two resistors hiding under the purple capacitor. Page 184 shows the network schematic and where the Blue wire & two resistors fit in to the circuit.
This will make it louder?
Doug, good point
Ralph's book indicates that "it will improve results a little." The combination of the 820 and 1,000 ohm resistors ( 1,820 combined)in parallel with a transmitter that has a resistance of 75-275 ohms should not make a great deal of difference, but there is no doubt that it should help. Especially if the F1 transmitter Dark has is higher in resistance than normal due to age.
Also, by giving the F1 element a suitable rap on the table may help to loosen up any packed carbon granuals that may have become packed with age and lack of use. (Yes, this is an acceptable practice!) Just take it out of the handset and give it a couple of good raps on the table, then replace it in the handset.
The 820 ohm resistor is the one that has the color bands of grey, red, brown, gold; and the 1,000 ohm resistor is the one that is colored brown, black, red, gold. Since these resistors are in series with each other, simply snipping one lead on one and separating the snipped portion will take both out of the circuit that is in parallel with the transmitter.
If it is wired correctly, and if the removal of the resistors from the circuit does not help, the trouble definitely points to a tired transmitter element, which are readily available.
Quote from: DARK FATHER on October 09, 2010, 07:28:25 PM
I noticed before I installed the network that the phone would pick up a dial tone when plugged in and the dial tone was very clear and plenty loud. But not now. I wish I had tried to speak with someone on an incoming call when it was like that. It would establish if the mouthpiece element was bad. I will try to post pics later.
If you connected the red and green that were coming out of the desk set to the line directly, with no network or subset in the middle, then you were connecting the receiver element directly across the line with nothing to connect the transmitter or match the line to the telephone set internal impedance. (A fancy word meaning it won't really work.)
The network is a circuit that is smaller and electrically equivalent for doing the same things as the older subsets. They do several things, but the most important is that they make the phone actually work.
Well I gave the element a good rap on the table and now the volume has drastically improved for people I call! Thanks! I may not have to remove the resistors after all.
Yep, that is what the installers used to do too! ;D
It seemed to lose some volume again so I used the element in my WE 300 (Lucy Phone) which uses the same handset. The volume did improve. I suppose that these elements are not available NOS or manufactured by anyone anymore...?
Quote from: DARK FATHER on October 09, 2010, 10:23:45 PM
It seemed to lose some volume again so I used the element in my WE 300 (Lucy Phone) which uses the same handset. The volume did improve. I suppose that these elements are not available NOS or manufactured by anyone anymore...?
You can find them NOS on Ebay. The newest one I have seen is 1983.
Jim
I had no idea that they were made up to then!
FWIW, Steve Hilsz literally wrote the book on wiring AE mini-networks. He publishes "Painless Telephone Wiring" with diagrams on how to wire in WE and AE dials as well as wire networks into manual desksets. My copy is filled with crib notes on some things like later dials using pulse contacts G and BL instead of Y and BK, using mini-networks in sticks with 2ABs, etc. It's well worth the investment if you are going down the mini-network route for your restorations.
The mininetwork has the excellent function of automatic loop compensation, this may be removed, or adjusted. Increasing the 220 ohms resistor to 330 ohms will adjust it some, putting in the 220 ohms resistor (which you have removed) in series with VR2 will rise the current through the transmitter some more. just removing the 2 varistors VR1 and VR2 and you are back to the old times. all the current will go through the transmitter, just as it did before the 500 was introduced.
dsk
PS diagrams here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.msg62269#msg62269 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.msg62269#msg62269)
I differ slightly about rapping the transmitter on the table. IMHO that can cause subtle damage if done with excessive force. If you're going to do something like that, do it gently: use a larger number of gentle taps, rather than a smaller number of stronger taps. If you tap the transmitter on its edge, rotate it a quarter turn every few taps, so you don't just end up packing all the carbon in a different position.
Once you've got the carbon granules loosened up, you can keep them that way by occasionally shaking the receiver before or during a conversation. If you do it while talking with someone, it will send a "sssh-ssh-sssh!" sound to the person you're speaking with.
If a transmitter makes a squealing frying sound, it is likely that the line voltage and current are too high for it, and you need to fix that ASAP because the transmitter will fry under those conditions (the carbon granules will get burned) and the problem will become permanent. The fix is a resistor in series and/or in parallel with the transmitter, to drop the DC current flow through the transmitter to 20 - 40 milliamps and in no case higher than 60 milliamps. (Yes you should have a volt-ohm meter (VOM) on your desk, ideally with an analog meter, for making tests while repairing telephones.)
If you can't make the squealing/frying sound go away, the carbon in the transmitter is fried. Keep it as a spare anyway; some day it may be possible to replace the fried carbon granules in it.
Do Not replace fried carbon granules with gunpowder, just because they look alike. Otherwise when you hook it up it will go Bang! and might hurt you:-)
Ok you harcore WE guys do not beat me up here but an AE "G" type equivalent handset transmitter fits nicely in the WE "F" handset and only requires slight bending of contacts to work. To be extra sure you can put a piece of shrink tube over the center contact as far as you can from the screw to contact, or even just a piece of electrical tape. My 202 with F handset sounds better than ever with the AE Mic. No WE mic compares. I use asterisk so it is easy for me to compare levels.
AE Transmitters are more reliable as AE_Collector once pointed out and I agree with that. Also My AE mic I used came in the same styleline I ripped the mini network out of.
I think however the Electret mic with converter offer the best sound , go to this thread http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15950.msg165205#msg165205
I have at least one WE F handset with an AE element in it which was put there for exactly that reason.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 09, 2010, 08:14:21 PMIf you connected the red and green that were coming out of the desk set to the line directly, with no network or subset in the middle, then you were connecting the receiver element directly across the line with nothing to connect the transmitter or match the line to the telephone set internal impedance. (A fancy word meaning it won't really work.)
The network is a circuit that is smaller and electrically equivalent for doing the same things as the older subsets. They do several things, but the most important is that they make the phone actually work.
Not to mention they protect the receiver capsule from demagnetizing, and protect the dial contacts from getting welded together!
Mike