What do i have and where to start

[jcar302]

Hey guys, have this old phone that i would like to restore and make work at home.

I normally toy with cars as a hobby, but i'll dabble in anything that will keep me busy.

I really don't know too much.
Appears from some research it is a Western Electric.
The vault door is no where to be found, everything you see is what i have.

I really have no clue where to begin restoring or testing it.
I'm an electrician so i would think i have most tools necessary to work on it.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Joe

[Sargeguy]

Hello,
What you have is a 233G Western Electric 3-slot payphone. These are commonly found without the vault doors and locks, which were removed when the phone was removed from service.   Payphones are a lot more complicated than typical phones.  This phone required a special line which does not exist anymore.  It will not dial or receive calls without modification.  There are two things yoiu can do:

There is a  device that will mimic the functionality of an old pay phone that costs around $200.   You will also need a 685 subset ringer box if you want it to ring on incoming calls (not all payphones accepted incoming calls).  In order for this to work you will need to make sure that your phone is properly wired.  Wiring schematics are available at the TCI Library.  Hopefully all the mechanical parts are operational.

Another option is to modify the phone to ring on a modern line.  There are a few different ways to do so, with different levels of functionality.  

This link is a good place to start:  http://www.porticus.org/bell/telephones-payphones-233G.html

[Phonesrfun]

It's a Western Electric, all right.  233G 3-slot prepay pay phone.  Restoring the outer parts would be the hardest part, and it looks like it is a little rough, but do-able.  Vault doors are out there, and so are the upper housing locks, although I don't have those parts.  Some here may.  Several months ago, a couple people on this forum did some very impressive work at sanding and painting their pay phones to make them look very nice.

It looks like yours is all there, except for the vault door and the upper housing lock.

They were connected to a special central office line that was a payphone trunk that would sense the deposit of the coin to do what is called a ground-start to start the dial tone.  That same special trunk was equipped to collect or return the coin under the conditions of whether a call went through or not, and to collect enough money for a toll call.  Those special central office trunks are not available any longer, but in terms of connecting them as a regular phone, that can still be done through your home telephone line.  You can eithe hook it up as a straight phone, or you can build or buy an electronic controller to simulate the effect of the special CO trunk.

In any event, the phone as it is will need either a subset with a 425-B network and ringer or a printed circuit network out of a later model phone.  The payphone itself was not equipped with an internal subset or ringer, but needs one to function.

The subset model for that phone was, I believe a 685 and needed 5 wires to connect between the subset and the payphone.  In a phone booth, the subset was typically mounted either on the wall or under the writing shelf inside the booth.  The two wires from the phone line connect to the input of the subset.

Like I indicated above, some have foregone the ringer and used a printed circuit type network from a later model phone and mounted it inside the payphone body.  The best solution is to get the subset, since it would also come with the ringer, and even though it looks like there is a lot of space inside the phone, mounting the network inside the phone out of the way of the coin relay can be a challenge.

You could also use a modified WE 500 set to serve as the 685 subset, and wire that to the payphone with the 5 wires.

There are several circuits out there for coin controller simulators, and some collectors may also sell them, although there are only a couple out there that I know of who may sell them.  Since the coin relay operates at 100 volts DC, I think many who know how to build and sell controllers shy away due to the possible liability of having their product in the hands of someone who may inadvertantly harm themselves with the voltages.  The problem with the 100-volts is that it is usually provided from a capacitor discharging with lots of momentary current.

One other payphone seller on e-bay has a proprietary circuit that he only sells with payphones he sells.

If nobody here has the vault door or lock and key you need, you could try the TCI (Telephone Collectors International) listserve, which is an open listserve.  However, someone here may also have the parts you need.

Once you are ready to hook it up, I can tell you which wires to connect to the subset, the printed circuit network, or the spare 500.

Cheers, and welcome to the forum.

PS:  It looks like I said much of what Sargeguy said, but rather than deleting my post, I sent it anyway at the risk of being redundant.

[jcar302]

Thanks guys.
Thats alot of great (and confusing, lol) info for me to digest.
That website was actually the first one i got when i put the part number into google.  Good info there, just wasn't sure if my phone was the same because the xya at the end of the 233g.

The flash makes the pictures look way worse than it really is.

This is what i would like the phone to be when done.  Money isn't a concern as long as it's a few dollars here and there, not 500 bucks at a clip.
Can i get parts from these guys too?
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/model-233-3-slot-payphone.html

Newb question of the day, what is a subset?

Just to clarify, when finished i would like the phone to ring (preferably original bell/ringer), dial out,receive calls and make the coin sound.
I don't need it to require coins to work.

If any of that isn't the smartest or is an unreasonable idea, please say so, because i have no idea as to what expect or the limitations.

I'd also prefer no equimpment mounted outside the phone.

edit:  Another question, i need a vault and a vault door correct?

[Phonesrfun]

Probably the easiest way to get you going is to mount a network inside the phone.  I can send you a photo of what I am talking about.  It won't ring, but other than that, it will function.  To have it ring, you will need to mount a subset or a spare 500 phone stripped down to be a subset external to the payphone.

A subset is the electrical pieces that make a phone work.  The 685 subset contains a network and a ringer and a terminal strip.  the network is the electronics components consisting mostly of an induction coil, a couple capacitors a few resistors and a few other parts.  You will see when I send a picture of the network.  The payphone itself was not a self-contained phone, despite its size.

With a subset or a network board, you will be able to place and answer calls.  You will get the coin sound.  If you want it to ring, you will need the subset or some sort of an external ringer.  You asked about the vault and vault door.  You for sure need a vault door that has its own lock.  Looks like you need an upper housing lock too, otherwise the upper housing won't stay in place all by itself.

As to what goes in behind the vault door, there was a metal box made out of fairly thin metal, but it was designed to have a latch to prevent unauthorized opening, but that was more to prove whether someone had opened it, and was in no way strong and secure.  The coin boxes can be found on e-bay, but they are not totally necessary, and they are kind of expensive for what you get.  Many who have pay phone just place a clean tuna can under the chute inside behind the vault door.  The can catches the coins and pretty much replicates the sound of the coin hitting the original can.

Attached are three pictures.  The first two are the 685A subset designed for the payphone.  The first with the cover on, and the second with the cover off.  Notice it has the ringer (Bells), network, and a terminal strip.  It mounts external to the payphone and allows the phone to ring.  These come up frequently on e-bay, but you don't want any old subset, you need a 685A.

The third photo is a mini network mounted on a printed circuit board.  I took the picture next to my mouse to give its size some perspective.  It can be mounted inside the payphone, usually inside the coin vault or somewhere else.  I have some of these, and I can sell one for $5.00 plus shipping.  With this, you won't need a subset, but your payphone would have no way to ring.  Mounting a ringer inside the payphone can sometimes be done with a mini ringer such as one from a princess phone, but with lousy results.  First, those mini ringers are not as loud as a regular ringer, and the payphone has no vent holes for the sound to get out.

Like I mentioned, a spare WE 500 phone can be stripped of the dial, hookswitch, and handset and what you have left is the same as the 685A subset, but without the cover.  That can also be done at a lower cost than buying a 685A, and you would get ringing, but you would need to have it external to the payphone, and placed (hidden) out of the way.

[jcar302]

Probably the easiest way to get you going is to mount a network inside the phone.  I can send you a photo of what I am talking about.  It won't ring, but other than that, it will function.  To have it ring, you will need to mount a subset or a spare 500 phone stripped down to be a subset external to the payphone.

A subset is the electrical pieces that make a phone work.  The 685 subset contains a network and a ringer and a terminal strip.  the network is the electronics components consisting mostly of an induction coil, a couple capacitors a few resistors and a few other parts.  You will see when I send a picture of the network.  The payphone itself was not a self-contained phone, despite its size.

With a subset or a network board, you will be able to place and answer calls.  You will get the coin sound.  If you want it to ring, you will need the subset or some sort of an external ringer.  You asked about the vault and vault door.  You for sure need a vault door that has its own lock.  Looks like you need an upper housing lock too, otherwise the upper housing won't stay in place all by itself.

As to what goes in behind the vault door, there was a metal box made out of fairly thin metal, but it was designed to have a latch to prevent unauthorized opening, but that was more to prove whether someone had opened it, and was in no way strong and secure.  The coin boxes can be found on e-bay, but they are not totally necessary, and they are kind of expensive for what you get.  Many who have pay phone just place a clean tuna can under the chute inside behind the vault door.  The can catches the coins and pretty much replicates the sound of the coin hitting the original can.

Attached are three pictures.  The first two are the 685A subset designed for the payphone.  The first with the cover on, and the second with the cover off.  Notice it has the ringer (Bells), network, and a terminal strip.  It mounts external to the payphone and allows the phone to ring.  These come up frequently on e-bay, but you don't want any old subset, you need a 685A.

The third photo is a mini network mounted on a printed circuit board.  I took the picture next to my mouse to give its size some perspective.  It can be mounted inside the payphone, usually inside the coin vault or somewhere else.  I have some of these, and I can sell one for $5.00 plus shipping.  With this, you won't need a subset, but your payphone would have no way to ring.  Mounting a ringer inside the payphone can sometimes be done with a mini ringer such as one from a princess phone, but with lousy results.  First, those mini ringers are not as loud as a regular ringer, and the payphone has no vent holes for the sound to get out.

Like I mentioned, a spare WE 500 phone can be stripped of the dial, hookswitch, and handset and what you have left is the same as the 685A subset, but without the cover.  That can also be done at a lower cost than buying a 685A, and you would get ringing, but you would need to have it external to the payphone, and placed (hidden) out of the way.

Ok, great info there. 
Thanks bill.

So i'm starting to think the logical solution here is to just buy a WE 500 and mount the parts external.  Just looked on ebay and it would seem they are dirt cheap.
Are all we 500's the same inside and have the parts i need?

[jcar302]

Hey guys, so i have the phone apart and working on prepping it for paint.

Man, that one screw in the bottom corner was a PITA to get out, had to grind a flathead screwdriver at an angle.

Couple questions.

A.  What are the part numbers for the lock i'm missing?  I look at some phones and they appear to have 2 locks on the body, one in the center and one to the right, i only have one in the center..

B.  Where to i get a vault door without getting raped on it?

C.  Is there any way to get the coin bucket out to paint the lower half?  

Thanks,
Joe

BTW, the phrase "they don't make them like they used to" applies to these phones, somehow all the chrome came shiny clean.

[Phonesrfun]

This will answer your question about pulling the coin return bucket out.  In fact, this BSP may answer a lot of questions, although it is 75 MB, see the description starting on page 144 about removing and replacing the coin bucket.

As to doors and lock numbers, I am not up on those, but many people are, and if not on this forum, for sure the TCI listserve.

Here is a link to the fabulous TCI document library (free) that has the BSP from 1972 on coin phones.  The document library is the largest one stop shopping place I know of for documents, and it is by far not complete.

Any way, go to the following link and choose download.  I hope you have high speed internet.  Then see pp 144-145 of the pdf document  (Not the BSP page numbers).

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=3941&Itemid=2