Identification of Ringer found in 1955 500 set

[zapper]

Upon removing the cover off a 1955 Green W.E. 500 I  found this ringer:
Marked GB600
16 2/3 CY
Its also missing the wheel to adjust the volume.
Thanks,
Zapper

[Phonesrfun]

It's a harmonic frequency ringer tuned to 16 2/3 Herz (Cycles per second).  These were not often found in Bell System phones but they did exist.

Getting it to ring on regular 20 Hz ringing current might take some adjusting, but fortunately 16.66 Hz is not too terribly different from 20 Hz.  Volume on these was not adjustable by the subscriber.

Good luck.

[WesternElectricBen]

Wow, that looks rather weird, is it the fact that the weird appearing to be counter weight is present. (If that's what it is?) And, I wonder if that clapper makes the ring sound, sounds different?

Looks like Dennis 591 with an added in ringer, but I cannot remember what type was added.

Ben

[Matilo Telephones]

Are you asking, because you want to change the volume? it seems to me that you change the volume by adjusting the weight on the clapper. If you loosen the screw on the weight and move it toward the end, the volume should be louder.

[G-Man]

Are you asking, because you want to change the volume? it seems to me that you change the volume by adjusting the weight on the clapper. If you loosen the screw on the weight and move it toward the end, the volume should be louder.

No, it has nothing to do whatsoever with volume.

The weight tunes the ringer to the frequency that it is intended to respond to.

While originally it would be no-no, adjusting it or even removing it all together may help in getting it to respond to 20~ ringing.

[Jack Ryan]

WE made a 500 without a ringer so that (usually) third parties could fit frequency ringers for party line use.

http://www.paul-f.com/we591.htm

WE itself did not make frequency ringers for the 500 (or for the 300). Other manufacturers like Kellogg made a complete line of frequency ringers for the 500 covering the Harmonic, Synchromonic and Decimonic standards.

Frequency ringers did not have volume adjustment because it interfered with the resonant operating frequency.

Jack

[Matilo Telephones]

Are you asking, because you want to change the volume? it seems to me that you change the volume by adjusting the weight on the clapper. If you loosen the screw on the weight and move it toward the end, the volume should be louder.

No, it has nothing to do whatsoever with volume.

The weight tunes the ringer to the frequency that it is intended to respond to.

While originally it would be no-no, adjusting it or even removing it all together may help in getting it to respond to 20~ ringing.

Oh? If the weight is moved towards the end, it would move a longer distance and have more speed at the end of each strike. Therefor it would hit the bell harder and thus sound louder.

Sure, the frequency would change, but the loudness would change too.

[twocvbloke]

It'd be fun going at one of those with a frequency generator, seeing at which ranges it would ring and others where it just wibbles at but not ring, they're something we just didn't have over here (not enough people sharing lines I guess!!), so definitely would be a fun thing to play with...

[G-Man]

It was never intended to be used as a volume control anymore than automobile manufacturers intended for the speed to be controlled by removing or replacing sparkplugs. Sure it will work but it is an awkward means of doing so.

In regards to the ringer, unless you or anyone else has had direct experience with this specific model of ringer, no one knows whether removing it will cause it to operate either loudly or not at all on 20~ ringing.

Throughout my career I have dealt with countless frequency ringers and at times they can be very persnickety when trying to adjust them, and while I suspect that it can be easily tuned to operate properly, only experimentation will verify it.

Adjusting or removing it should be with the intention of tuning it to consistently respond to 20~ ringing; the keyword being consistently.

Are you asking, because you want to change the volume? it seems to me that you change the volume by adjusting the weight on the clapper. If you loosen the screw on the weight and move it toward the end, the volume should be louder.

No, it has nothing to do whatsoever with volume.

The weight tunes the ringer to the frequency that it is intended to respond to.

While originally it would be no-no, adjusting it or even removing it all together may help in getting it to respond to 20~ ringing.

Oh? If the weight is moved towards the end, it would move a longer distance and have more speed at the end of each strike. Therefor it would hit the bell harder and thus sound louder.

Sure, the frequency would change, but the loudness would change too.

[TelePlay]

A similar ringer in a "500" style phone can be seen at this topic discussion.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1364.msg17438#msg17438

[G-Man]

A similar ringer in a "500" style phone can be seen at this topic discussion.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1364.msg17438#msg17438

While both appear to be GB600-series ringers (Allen Tel?), Zapper's is tuned to respond to 16-2/3~ and Dennis' is tuned to 30~ ringing.

Because of this difference, the tuning weights are shaped differently, the coil leads are brought out at different locations, the bells are adjusted to different positions, Dennis' ringer uses an external capacitor while Zapper's uses the networks ringer capacitor.

[LarryInMichigan]

Moving the weight up (toward the reed) should help to increase the frequency to which the ringer will respond just like shortening the length of a pendulum on a clock will speed up the clock.

Larry

[G-Man]

It'd be fun going at one of those with a frequency generator, seeing at which ranges it would ring and others where it just wibbles at but not ring, they're something we just didn't have over here (not enough people sharing lines I guess!!), so definitely would be a fun thing to play with...

According the related N.E. Practice for North Electric's clone of Western Electric's C-type straight-line ringers, they responded accordingly:


b. The straight line ringer (SL) is designed to operate over
the following frequency range.

     Frequency                    Voltage Required
   (cycles per second)                (low bias)
        16 cps                              55 volts
        20 cps                              50 volts
        25 cps                              65 volts
        30 cps                              85 volts
        33 cps                              110 volts

[poplar1]

It'd be fun going at one of those with a frequency generator, seeing at which ranges it would ring and others where it just wibbles at but not ring, they're something we just didn't have over here (not enough people sharing lines I guess!!), so definitely would be a fun thing to play with...

According the related N.E. Practice for North Electric's clone of Western Electric's C-type straight-line ringers, they responded accordingly:


b. The straight line ringer (SL) is designed to operate over
the following frequency range.

     Frequency                    Voltage Required
   (cycles per second)                (low bias)
        16 cps                              55 volts
        20 cps                              50 volts
        25 cps                              65 volts
        30 cps                              85 volts
        33 cps                              110 volts

However, the 16 2/3~ ringer as designed will respond *only* to that particular frequency. Even a small variation from that value will prevent it from ringing.

[G-Man]

Yes and that is why it is called frequency selective ringing however some seem to think that the tuning weight is for adjusting the volume.

Since 16-2/3~ and 30~ are relatively close, with little effort they can probably be adjusted to respond to a 20~ ringing source though the ringing capacitor may also need to be changed in some instances.

If someone attempted to adjust the tuning weight on say, a 50~ or 60~ ringer they most likely would not be successful unless they made major modifications including cutting out a portion of the reed.