News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Candlestick Recommendations

Started by Sargeguy, November 25, 2008, 08:37:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Sargeguy

Its been two days since my last phone purchase, and I am feeling the itch.   :-\ I still have several rooms that don't have a period phone.  My house was built in 1928, towards the end of the candlestick phone era.  I realize that a 102 would  be appropriate, especially since my great-grandfather put new-fangled gadgets in his house (and my grandmother and great aunt were Bell System operators at the time, so he had connections). But every time I walk by my telephone niche I think..candlestick!  The 202 looks great, but there is all that headroom.  The niche was designed for a candlestick, and so my next big phone acquisition is going to be a rotary dial candlestick.

I know next to nothing about vintage candlesticks.  I know whatever was there was a Western Electric based upon the outline of an old subset.  Should I be looking for a WE 151AL?  Are there other rotary-dial candlestick models would have been issued in 1928?  Let me know where to start and what to look for.

Thanks
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

JimH

The 151AL was a "retrofit" candlestick that really didn't come out until the 30's.  It was wired for anti-sidetone and had the newer transmitter and receiver capsules.  What would have been issued in 1928 probably would have been a 51AL or a 50AL (they are the same, the 50AL was earlier with a different wiring harness--but they look exactly the same) 
Jim H.

benhutcherson

Although the 151AL wouldn't be exactly correct, if you're looking for a telephone to use everyday, it definitely warrants some strong consideration.

A 151AL should be fitted with a "Bulldog" transmitter and 706A receiver(using the same elements as are used in an F-1 handset), both of which will offer better sound reproduction than an older open-back transmitter and open magnet receiver.

In fact, if you pair a 151AL with a 101A network, you, in effect, have something equivalent to a 302, which we all know to be a superb telephone to use.

I personally find the presence of sidetone to be objectionable enough that a 151AL is the only WE candlestick I would consider using.

Sargeguy

Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

BDM

151AL is generally the cheapest. Of course condition and "salesmanship" play a factor into the final price. Unless you find someone selling one for a given price, and not Ebag. The 51AL was easier to service than the 50AL as they brought some of the switch connections into the base. Maybe a few other slight differences, but that about sums it up for those two models.

Also, the 50/51AL sets use the solid back transmitter as stated. Sound quality from those is "ok" at best! They lack the freq response, high and low of the later cartridge type transmitters. The 143/144 receivers sound pretty good, but they also lack freq response, just not as bad as the transmitters.

I agree with the above statement. I also only use the 151AL in regular service. Just personal preference, no right or wrong here.

On a side note, I have a 51AL I modified the transmitter on. I installed a T1 transmitter, and used cotton to fill the back of the transmitter cup. This improved transmitter quality substantially, plus the cotton eliminates the "hollow" tin can sound. I wired it for anti-sidetone use. I then used a #4 dial to keep that nice clicky sound they're noted for. Now I have the classic look, plus modern performance. Keep in mind, I did this to a basket case 51AL. It's been re-painted by a collector friend who also baked it for durability. That was about 13 years ago, and it's still going strong. Plus it looks great!
--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

Shovelhead

O.K., so how about a 20AL? Good or worthless?

bingster

Nothing's worthless, and they all work.  If they didn't, they'd never have been installed in the first place.  The question is, what kind of performance do you want from the phone? 

Any desk stand with a two-digit model number is a sidetone phone, and any desk stand with a three-digit model number is an anti-sidetone phone.  The sidetone can be reduced though, by moving a wire in the subset.  It won't give you an anti-sidetone phone, but it will be much better.

The two-digit phones generally all have old-style receiver and transmitter elements, which don't give the performance of the modern receiver and transmitter cartridges.  But that doesn't mean you won't be able to hear or be heard without those modern cartridges--it just means your voice may sound thin to those on the other end, and they'll sound somewhat tinny to you.

If the 302 and 500 are the ultimate in sound reproduction (and I personally think they are), then the sound quality of a two-digit desk stand is probably on par with many modern phones.  If you're used to that quality, then I don't think any older desk stand is going to bother you.
= DARRIN =



benhutcherson

Just bear in mind that the 20AL doesn't have a dial.

I agree with everything Bingster said. I have a 40AL, which is the same as a 20AL but made of steel rather than brass(WWI copper rationing). It's not horrible, but certainly not as nice to use as even my 151AL.

BDM

Pretty hard to match the audio quality(or lack) of a solid-back transmitter, even with an el'cheapo modern phone. They have a very narrow audio response window. Also add that most of them are probably out of "tune" by now, so to say. There is an adjustment for the anvil to diaphragm(someone correct me on the anvil, I just can't remember the proper terminology right now, sitting at work). I've also seen several with that thin sheet of mica between the anvil/diaphragm missing or decayed.
--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

Bill

#9
QuoteAny desk stand with a two-digit model number is a sidetone phone, and any desk stand with a three-digit model number is an anti-sidetone phone.
How about the 102 and early 202? Actually, I think sidetone vs antisidetone is determined in the subset, not the desk stand. I have a 202 (D1 desk stand) connected to a 334A subset, which was apparently appropriate. It has a #20 induction coil, and is definitely a sidetone set.

Bill

Sargeguy

My 202 is hooked up to a 634A using a 3-wire configuration (no black) and it works fine with no sidetone.  I always thought it was the spit-cup. ::)
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

BDM

Quote from: Bill on December 01, 2008, 06:19:42 PM
QuoteAny desk stand with a two-digit model number is a sidetone phone, and any desk stand with a three-digit model number is an anti-sidetone phone.
How about the 102 and early 202? Actually, I think sidetone vs antisidetone is determined in the subset, not the desk stand. I have a 202 (D1 desk stand) connected to a 334A subset, which was apparently appropriate. It has a #20 induction coil, and is definitely a sidetone set.

Bill

Not true, generally the proper switch hook assembly(number of connections) will determine this in the desk stands, hence the number designation. 102 = sidetone, 202 = anti-sidetone cradle. 50/51AL = sidetone, 150/151AL = anti-sidetone desk stand. Now, either one can be re-wired for sidetone or anti-sidetone use. Naturally the subset will be the final determination. But, that's not how Ma Bell did thing in the end.

P.S., same thing can be said for the dial assemblies, such as the No. #2 dial vs the No. #4 dial, etc. etc.
--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

bingster

Quote from: Bill on December 01, 2008, 06:19:42 PM
QuoteAny desk stand with a two-digit model number is a sidetone phone, and any desk stand with a three-digit model number is an anti-sidetone phone.
How about the 102 and early 202
The 102 and 202 aren't desk stands.  A desk stand is a "candlestick." 

The 102 is sidetone, the 202 (early, late--all of 'em) are anti-sidetone, as are all 200-type phones.  The 102 can be easily converted to anti-sidetone by replacing the three-conductor mounting cord with a four-conductor cord, and the sidetone subset with an anti-sidetone subset.
= DARRIN =



BDM

Sometimes I get the feeling my post are invisible ???
--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

bingster

Nah, I was just expanding on your theme.  I had missed the initial post about 102/202 and wanted to clarify my statement, which brought it about.
= DARRIN =