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My new office phone - WE5304

Started by Slal, July 28, 2014, 04:37:01 PM

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Slal

Hi everyone,

Picked this up for home office but it came with an F1 handset.  Hopefully not phone heresy but put a bakelite G1 handset on it for comfort.

Reason for post though.  Cannot find much about what the '304' series were used for? 

What do terms like "Ring Party - Flat Rate" & "Tip Party - Flat Rate" mean?   

For hotel, bar, or place where customers could call 'collect' or be charged-- why not use a pay-phone?

Also, looks to have an extra set of hook switches.  This would be how they'd have cut connection after time expired? 

Any info. about it greatly appreciated.

thx

--Bruce



unbeldi

#1
The 304, as well as the 5304 were used for message rate service on two-subscriber party lines.  The sets have a B2A ringer which has a split winding, and has therefor four leads. It also has a modified version of the 101-type anti-sidetone induction coil, with a tap in the center of the primary winding. To use the features, the hookswitch had to be extended with an additional switch.

With these features the set could be connected in various service configurations to several exchange types to provide a variety of flat rate and message rate billing options.

We had a discussion about party lines some time ago in another thread and it may be good to review, I posted several circuit diagrams of wiring options for the 304 here:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10444.msg110980#msg110980


unbeldi

#2
A standard G1 handset, as found on the 500-series, was not originally recommended equipment for the 5304. WECo made a special G-type handset, identified as the GF handset, which was a modified G1 that could accommodate an F1 transmitter and an HA1 receiver.

The reason for this modification was that the G1 handset had a 5dB gain improvement which caused trouble on short loops, so that the sidetone was excessive with this handset. In the 500-set this was automatically compensated for by the advanced network design with a line balancing varistor circuit. But of course the old 302-type technology could not do this.

So, technically a 530x with a standard G1 should only be installed in the distant zones around a central office where the local loop impedance was high enough to attenuate the signal sufficiently.


poplar1

It appears that there are three wires on BK of the dial. Should be just the black capacitor wire and black transmitter wire.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

#4
Quote from: poplar1 on July 28, 2014, 07:54:45 PM
It appears that there are three wires on BK of the dial. Should be just the black capacitor wire and black transmitter wire.

You need to move that white wire (assuming correct color coded cords) to the W screw that is sort of recessed on the right below BB. It seems to be unused.
Your second white (from the G1 handset) is already doubled up on red,  so the one on BK is wrong.

Phonesrfun

Looks like one of the receiver white wires is connected to BK.  It should be connected to W on the dial.  Seems to me that if the white is connected to BK and not to W, the dial pulses will not be cut out and be very annoying to listen to.

-Bill G

Phonesrfun

Oops, looks like I posted the same reply as unbeldi.
-Bill G

Slal

Quote from: Phonesrfun on July 28, 2014, 11:52:28 PM
Looks like one of the receiver white wires is connected to BK.  It should be connected to W on the dial.  Seems to me that if the white is connected to BK and not to W, the dial pulses will not be cut out and be very annoying to listen to.

That's why I like it here.  Asked a question & was given link to topic that will help me understand party lines.

And as an added bonus...

All of you are right on the money.  Does indeed have an unpleasant "toc" sound when dialing-- wasn't there when using the F1 handset.

Long way of saying thanks for the link & also pointing out mistake in connecting the G1.

As wired right now, putting "white #1" on the "W" of dial doesn't work-- no dial tone.

Anyway attaching photo of handset connections.  Appreciate the help.

--Bruce

poplar1

That's a "GF" handset, which is correct for a 5302 or 5304 since it has the F1 transmitter unit and HA1 receiver unit, the same as in the F1-type handset.

Which white handset wire did you move to W--the one that was on BK of the dial or the one that was with red on R of the induction coil?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

#9
Ok, I suspect the reason for not getting dial tone anymore, is because the receiver is disconnected now.  That means the other connections to the dial are wrong too.  Terminal W is a switch to terminal BB (Brown-Blue) the one just above it.  Wire brown-blue goes to the hook switch, and comes back as Green (GN) to the induction coil. That is the contact pair on the hookswitch that is closes to the dial.

It's hard to make out the colors in the pics.

[PS:  I see Poplar1 posted in the time I was composing.  That's another possibility of course to have the receiver disconnected, but I think I already said that was the correct way to do it.]

unbeldi

The wire colors on the hookswitch contacts:

unbeldi

#11


Here is a schematic of the 304 from another thread in the forum.
This is for bridged ringing as you need it, it shows a connection to ground (GND) on the mounting cord, but it is not needed to be connected at all.

This diagram has all the dial and hookswitch terminals designated.  The L1 and L2 terminals on the ringer circuit of course are the same as in the audio part.

Last not least, the No. 6 dial terminals below.

Slal

Appreciate clarification on handset and diagrams.  Into my 3-ring binder they go.

Embarrassing mistake to admit on a board, but helpful to have the ends of two wires the same color ***labeled correctly***

Did a continuity check.  "white #1" spade at receiver & "white #1" at phone ---> Zero load or ***wrong wire***  ; )

Re-labeled & swapped them. 

Works like a charm!  Good call on it. 

--Bruce

PS:  If the shell is marked "5-23-61" & dial is painted "61-L" in vermillion-- that's about as close as I'm going to get in estimating how old it is?  Could "L" be a "II"?  Difficult to read under the plastic.  Thx



poplar1

#13
It shouldn't make any difference which white wire is on R of the induction coil and which white wire is on W of the dial. That's why they are the same color.

Dial is a 6H but may be marked 6A. There should also be a manufacture date (M-YY or MM-YY). "61L" is probably "lubricated in 1961."
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Slal

That's odd.  Maybe something was crimped or shorted.  Removing the cord's connections to check it them 'accidentally' solved whatever was causing the problem?  Anyway, works now so "machts nicht."

For dating it, am guessing no firm answers.  304C components marked 6-49 or 49-II. 

The dial on this phone is marked "6H 3-4-56" in black paint.  So in 1961 WE or a contractor replaced the #5 dial and put a housing on it to look like a 500?

Final question as wrap this up.  What did "C" designate?  One publication states "A" = manual but doesn't mention what the other letters meant other than 'dial' models.

thx

--Bruce