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W.E. 302 governor problem

Started by neondave, July 30, 2014, 07:17:57 PM

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neondave

Hello,

         First,  I  know little/nothing about phone repair .   My 302 has gov.  issues . No matter how I adjust it,   sometimes it works, then not.

          I thought maybe dirt or something. I sprayed the heck out of it with canned air. It works great for a day, then screws up again. I repeated the canned air and the same thing, A day later then it doesn't dial correctly.  (too fast ).

         I may have to send it out for a rebuild or something.  How can canned air get it going for a day, then goes bad ?  ???

            Thanks for your input , Dave

TelePlay

Welcome to the forum. You may just want to send to dial to Steve Hilsz.

This forum post has his contact web site and his dial repair site links.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4385.msg70731#msg70731

If you start at the top of the topic in which this post resides, you can find out a lot about his dial repair/cleaning services.

And, his price is reasonable.

Kenton K

perhaps there is oil in the gov.  that changes consistency based on temperature. And the canned air cools and thickens the grease. You could try rinsing it out with gasoline or other light solvent, then adjust the screw.

neondave

Quote from: Kenton K on July 30, 2014, 08:26:08 PM
perhaps there is oil in the gov.  that changes consistency based on temperature. And the canned air cools and thickens the grease. You could try rinsing it out with gasoline or other light solvent, then adjust the screw.

   maybe not gasoline, but perhaps  Alcohol  ?   

WesternElectricBen

Gasoline would work fine, as I'm sure alcohol would.

If you don't feel comfortable submerging your dial, as mentioned Steve Hilsz is a great source of repair. Nearly everyone who is commonly on the forum has probably used Steve once..

Ben

TelePlay

As an FYI, conventional gasoline is " . . . mostly a blended mixture of more than 200 different hydrocarbon liquids ranging from those containing 4 carbon atoms to those containing 11 or 12 carbon atoms." It is also quite flammable and can be explosive if used in a closed space, such as a basement. Then there is the toxicological affects of many of the components on anything living.

Alcohol has 2, the alcohol purchased mixed with water.

Of the 200 or so different hydrocarbons in gasoline, any one of those could have a negative affect on any non-metallic components of a dial and/or governor, they could deteriorate and/or dissolve a part in addition to removing crud.

Many on the forum have used the non-lubricant version of electronic cleaner found at Radio Shack and other places. This cleaner, followed by compressed air to dry out the part being cleaned, would be better than putting anything in gasoline.

I found that ultrasonic cleaning with the right solvent works well at cleaning a dirty dial. Of course, the dial must then be lubricated correctly after any cleaning.

Sending a dial to Steve Hilsz gets it cleaned, fixed and calibrated. Nothing wrong with that for a few bucks.

(PS: Ben, I posted links to Steve's web site a few posts above in the first reply to this topic.)

rp2813

Many years ago, long before the internet age, I learned the hard way about using solvents.  I used a can of carburetor cleaner spray and some of it dripped onto the vermillion date information on a 10/56 7D dial, which it instantly obliterated. 

If you want to give a solvent a try, first smear petroleum jelly over any such markings to protect them, and be careful.
Ralph

Kenton K

Yes, I never submerge entire devices in gasoline/solvent. When I refurbish dials, I soak only gears, washers, and nuts in solvent, then brush with a toothbrush.  I use toothpicks/Q-tips dipped in solvents to clean bearings and other surfaces. Solvent will dissolve paint depending on its strength. I find naptha a pretty 'weak' solvent. OK on most plastics, but good enough to remove grease and goop. It also doesn't evaporate too fast. Acetone, MEK, label remover, paint thinner, I find too stinky and strong to work with.

And alcohol doesn't always work. Alcohol is a good all-purpose cleaner, but may not work with some stubborn residues. Also, don't use on soft plastic!

-KEN

HarrySmith

Gasoline should not be used to clean anything, ever! Trust me, I have done it many times and have witnessed the unfortunate results. I started working on cars way back in 1971, it was commonplace back the to use gas to clean parts. Nobody was aware of the environmental or physical problems it causes. It is caustic besides everything else that makes it dangerous, it will damage your skin. The vapors can ignite unexpectedly by just a static spark. I have seen guys with skin destroyed by it, I have seen it burn hands, arms and faces. Lockily I never experienced anything like that bit it was pure luck, not smarts that saved me. There are much better, much safer and much cheaper alternatives out there!
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Kenton K

True, I advise against gasoline, but I do like using kerosene/coleman fuel.

twocvbloke

When working with fuel like petroleum, it's wise not to wear plastic clothing (polyester) which generates static, and it helps to wear disposable gloves to prevent your hands getting all dried out and damaged (been there, done that, at least I fixed my mower engine though!!), as for catching fire, well, you do have to do something really stupid to make it spontaneously catch fire, and the fumes are only an issue in small, unventilated spaces, otherwise it's quite safe to work with, though I wouldn't ever use the stuff on a phone, unless it was a chinese clone and also involved the use of a match... ;D

unbeldi

#11
Gasoline is not the greatest of solvents for cleaning mechanical parts in telephony, I think, but after all it was once used for dry-cleaning clothing and delicate fabric. That is how I believe dry-cleaning started, with gasoline.

Gasoline is a very apolar solvent, and therefore it does not dissolve Tenite or ABS plastics, so potentially it should be safe to use on telephone housings. Even polyethylene the most common plastic of all, and used in huge quantities by WECo for cords and cables, and other insulation, has good chemical resistance. But usually there are better cleaning methods then using gasoline, because of its environmental and health problems, and its flammability.

For any cleaning job, the solvent should match the task. Except for grease and oil, usually something a little more polar works better.  Too polar, like acetone and other ketones, and they do dissolve the plastics that housings are made of.

LarryInMichigan

I have mentioned here before that I usually give sticky dials shots of electronic contact cleaner spray.  It quickly dissolves almost all of the congealed oil and dirt and is mostly safe, and it evaporates very quickly.

Larry

TelePlay

#13
Quote from: twocvbloke on July 31, 2014, 11:01:52 PM
. . . as for catching fire, well, you do have to do something really stupid to make it spontaneously catch fire, and the fumes are only an issue in small, unventilated spaces, . . .

Absolutely correct!

We all know this but, here goes anyway.

Liquid gasoline is not flammable, does not burn. It's the fumes, the vapors of gasoline's components that, as they evaporate, mix with air which has oxygen. The vapors (the fuel) need oxygen (the oxidizer) to burn. It's hard to get oxygen into the liquid gasoline itself for several reasons. It's very easy to evaporate gasoline into the atmosphere. If the vapors and oxygen mixture is just right, as in its evaporating into a closed area where the vapors slowly build up, at some point the mixture will be "just right" to make a very explosive mixture which can be set off by a very small spark of any kind.

Working with gas outside in any wind is quite safe unless a lit match is held near the liquid gas, close to the surface of the liquid gas which is evaporating into and being disbursed by the wind. Once the surface of gas begins to burn, the heat from that fire increases the rate of evaporation causing the initially small surface gas fire to grow rapidly. The surface of the gas begins to evaporate and then boil away as the fire continues. 

If the burning gas is leaking out of a tank, such as in a car or plane crash, the fire will heat up the gas in the tank increasing the pressure within the tank until it reaches the tanks bursting point, at which time, the tank will rupture allowing the superheated gasoline to quickly evaporate into a ball of fire (they use a stick of dynamite under a plastic bag containing gallons of liquid gasoline to do those big orange with black smoke fires one sees in movies, on TV and at outdoor events - 41 seconds into this video shows the effect including the burning plastic bag pieces falling back to the ground shortly after they are set off -- here's how they do that.)

I've seen enough horrible nose down small plane crashes where the fuel slowly leaks on the hot engine, ignites, burns slowly back to the wing tanks, ruptures the tanks over a few minutes and then grows rapidly into an all consuming ball of fire. Those fires are put out by keeping oxygen in the air from mixing with the fumes (foam works well).

Storing a gasoline powered device with gasoline in its tank in ones basement that has a water heater or furnace nearby is not a good idea, especially if gas vapors can escape the device's tank. We all put gas into our vehicles at gas stations, fill lawn  mowers, etc, and I can't remember the last time there was a fire reported from routine fillings when done properly.

As for contact with skin, many of the components of gas will easily penetrate the skin and get into ones bloodstream. Some of the components of gas are carcinogenic, benzene for one, and getting gas on ones hands routinely for long periods of time increases the concentration of those carcinogens within one's body. Over time, that is not a good thing and it does not end well.

But we all knew this, right?

Mr. Bones

John has hit the nail on the head, once again.

     Utilizing caution, and personal protective equipment when dealing with petroleum products / byproducts will help minimize / eliminate the effect of carcinogens upon one's person.

     A general rule of thumb that I use; your mileage may vary, but the facts shan't:

All plastics are petroleum-based.
All petroleum products are inherently carcinogenic.
Minimizing the presence of, and exposure to either in your life is generally advisable.
Your mileage may vary, but not very far. ;)

Let's be safe out there!

Best regards!


     
Sláinte!
   Mr. Bones
      Rubricollis Ferus