Discussion of several options for wall end line cord connectors

[HarrySmith]

YES! You got it. I would recommend use a scrap piece of wire and try a few crimps first. It is a little tricky to get it right. When I do a crimp I strip back a little bit of insulation and fold the wire over in the spade to be sure I am getting a good connection. That is probably not neccesary, it's just the way I do it! Your mileage may vary.

[TelePlay]

Also are these the same?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112007938868 (Surface Mount box above)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N7JD/

It's also hard to see if the Amazon one has a mousehole.

No, a different site selling the same item as on eBay

     https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N5GC/?th=1

shows the back of the case does not have a mouse hole. It is for putting a modular jack on a wall without having to cut a large hole for an electrical box, jack insert and cover plate.

While in theory, they both would work, the Amazon box would have the wire sticking out of the bottom, not the back side, unless you wanted to hack a mouse hole into the back side to make it into something that already exists for a lot less money.

The Amazon box is for plugging a phone with a modular line cord into the homes phone wiring.

The mouse hole box is an adapter to convert a round line cord from a phone into a modular connector so a modular cord can be used to connect the adapter to a  modular jack already mounted in the wall.

The "I" and "W" letters are for Ivory and White.

[bellsystem]

Thanks John, I'll just get the eBay one.

I don't have any scrap wire. Is there any other way to test it? Also, Alex said not the strip the cord.

Does a miscrimp render both that section of the cable AND the telephone lug useless or just one or the other? I have a very long cord for the phone and am getting 100 lugs (99 too many). Can you take the lug off if you do it wrong?


Well, I'll get those lugs and the surface mount with mousehole from eBay and the crimper from Amazon. I guess I'll buy a Caller ID unit so I can get free shipping. Hopefully, I don't need anything more. And I use the crimper to crimp to the end of the cable the open side (the tips of the U) or the side that looks like the bottom of a Y? And then the opposite side (the bottom of the Y or the top of it?) goes into the connection box, by the screws?)

[Alex G. Bell]

YES! You got it. I would recommend use a scrap piece of wire and try a few crimps first. It is a little tricky to get it right. When I do a crimp I strip back a little bit of insulation and fold the wire over in the spade to be sure I am getting a good connection. That is probably not necessary, it's just the way I do it! Your mileage may vary.

Whether stripping the end back works or not or is necessary or not is somewhat dependent on the wire size range of the lug relative to the conductor insulation and conductor diameters.  If they are near the max. allowable size, folding the conductor over may make the lead end too large for the sides of the lug to fold over the insulation properly.  For example it probably would not work on the thick rubber insulated 302 cord leads and might or might not work or be beneficial with the thinner green 500 set cord.

OTOH if they are large the chances of the piercing tangs missing the conductor if the end is not folded back is also small.  However for small gauge wire such as the #28AWG in a modular cord there is a chance the tang will miss the conductor so folding the end over is prudent and the small size also means that folding the end over will not exceed the range of the lug. 

For this green cord the conductors are probably much larger than #28AWG and therefore large enough to be unnecessary

Also, which notch in the tool is used and which way the lug is inserted in the tool also makes a huge difference.  I usually find that since the notches in the jaw of this tool have parallel sides, it works best if the lug is place in the notch of the jaw so the opening on the top of the lug with the wire in it faces the "blind side" (bottom) of the notch and the compression from the tool is applied to the bottom of lug.  I can post a photo showing this.

Practicing on a scrap may not provide useful information if the conductor and insulation diameters of the scrap are much different from that of the cord. 

Given that there is 25' of cord, cutting the lug off and stripping the cord back another inch would be of no consequence and it's probably pointless to practice on a scrap.

[Alex G. Bell]

Does a miscrimp render both that section of the cable AND the telephone lug useless or just one or the other? I have a very long cord for the phone and am getting 100 lugs (99 too many). Can you take the lug off if you do it wrong?

As a practical matter lugs cannot be reused. 

If a miscrimp occurs you cut the lug off just behind it and try again with a new lug.  The only caveat here is that the leads should all be the same length, especially if short for connection to a 4-prong plug, so if you miscrimp the last lug of all the conductors of the cord you are faced with the possibility of cutting off all the previous good crimps so that when you re-do the last one the leads will all be the same length. 

With a cord you intend to connect to a modular jack there is plenty of space inside the jack to store excess lead length so you can cut the jacket back a little further before applying the lugs and not worry too much about whether they are all the same length.

As you apply each lug you should check for continuity to the same color lead inside the phone, on the 425 network L1, L2 and G screws to know that the crimp was successful.

You need to use a cable tie or two to anchor the body (jacket) of the cord to the jack or whatever you connect the lugs to so that tension is never applied to the leads and lugs if the cord gets tugged.

[bellsystem]

Wait, I need more than 1 lug? How many do I need? (2 for T&R?)

[Alex G. Bell]

Wait, I need more than 1 lug? How many do I need? (2 for T&R?)

You need one per lead: 1 for the red and 1 for the green.  The yellow and black do not need to be used nor have lugs applied for your purposes.

[Alex G. Bell]

Here is a link to a spade tip for sale by DigiKey which popped up in a CRPF web page thanks to Google Ads:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/61498-2/A29923CT-ND/294361?WT.mc_id=IQ_7595_G_dyn294361&wt.srch=1&wt.medium=cpc&WT.srch=1&gclid=CPHwt5iH0NUCFRaTfgodX8oAAA

[TelePlay]

Here is a link to a spade tip for sale by DigiKey which popped up in a CRPF web page thanks to Google Ads:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/61498-2/A29923CT-ND/294361?WT.mc_id=IQ_7595_G_dyn294361&wt.srch=1&wt.medium=cpc&WT.srch=1&gclid=CPHwt5iH0NUCFRaTfgodX8oAAA

Everything and anything need to know about or where to buy was provided ion Reply #15 to this topic

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4071.msg175922#msg175922

and is reposted here (click the link and scroll down to see everything you need to know in maybe 6 replies) for anyone who may have not clicked that link to find crimpers (Reply #57) are now shipped from US seller for under $10 with free shipping and both silver and gold spade lugs from DigiKey (Reply #56) including the part numbers and the quantity price break points.

That crimper topic is easily found by using the forum search function for the single word "crimper" and selecting most recent topics first.

Nothing else needs to be said on where and how much the lowest cost for crimpers and self piercing spade lugs can be said without repeating information in that topic.

And, if you want to wait a month, the same crimper can be ordered from China for just over $6 with free shipping. The forum had, already had, the information and it was linked to this topic 26 replies before this one. It's not rocket science guys, it's on the forum and someone actually did the search for you, so why not believe what 99% of forum members knew and ordered and used and enjoyed using the parts and tools in that topic to fix phones. Why does it have to be made so hard, need so many replies, create so much distrust, find so much ignoring of good information provided by members still willing to help? If you want to reinvent the wheel and fabricate a crimper and/or lugs out of stock steel, go for it, but then quit asking for members to repeat that which was already posted apparently ignored. It's not rocket science. It's not even high tech. It's put the point of the nail on a board and hit the head with a hammer stuff.

[Alex G. Bell]

... and both silver and gold spade lugs from DigiKey (Reply #56)

I think it's confusing to refer to these as "silver and gold" without saying that this describes their appearance.  Most likely they are silver or gold colored because they are tin plated brass or raw brass.  The mfr's data sheet would say for sure.

[TelePlay]

The tin lugs are cheaper than the brass, that's  all that  matters to me. A rose by any other name would still be a rose.  Same goes for spade lugs.


EDIT: the brass lugs are cheaper than the tin lugs as explained in Reply #47 below

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18650.msg192249#msg192249

[Alex G. Bell]

The tin lugs are cheaper than the brass, that's  all that  matters to me. A rose by any other name would still be a rose.  Same goes for spade lugs.

Then they should be referred to as "tin" and "brass" because it leaves no room for a misunderstanding about precious metal platings.  There are parts, connector contacts as a matter of fact, which actually are silver or gold plated. 

Tin is better and probably cheaper to produce than raw brass so it's puzzling that they're cheaper.

Correction:  Meant to say:
Tin is better and it's probably cheaper to produce raw brass so it's puzzling that tin are cheaper.

[bellsystem]

I never said I would fabricate a crimper and/or lugs out of stock steel. I don't know why you're accusing me of doing so John.

I think I'll buy the 100pc. lugs from eBay. The price is decent for the quantity. I'll be set for probably another 20 years, unless every one of my next 48 phones has a cut cord.

[TelePlay]

The tin lugs are cheaper than the brass, that's  all that  matters to me. A rose by any other name would still be a rose.  Same goes for spade lugs.

I said that backwards. The brass spade lugs are cheaper than the tin lugs and here's why. The brass lugs are brass with no coating. The tin lugs are made of brass but tin coated. So, the tin plated brass lugs cost more than the plain brass lugs.

Attached are the work product requested. The -1 part number, the brass spade lug, according to the product data sheet is brass with no coating. The -2 part number, the tine spade lug, according to the product data sheet is a brass spade lug with a tin coating.

Now, having wasted 20 minutes doing the hard work, I really have to ask myself why? Was it really worth answering a question that is too technical to the actual use of the spade lugs (size, self piercing and price per quantity)? Instead of asking the question, look it up for yourself. Links to both spade lugs were given in a reply following the crimper link.

As for the comment "fabricate a crimper and/or lugs out of stock steel," it goes to your constant reluctance to do what is offered and instead come up with your own hypothetical plan to answer your own question by doing something in a way, to do it your way which most of the time means doing it in a way only you could or would be able to produce, to fabricate from base metal and plastic, your answer and when done, to end up with a one off item, whether or not it works.

[AL_as_needed]

Now gentlemen, lets all play nice. As said in Cool Hand Luke ...

"What we have here is failure to communicate, some men ya just cant reach..."

That being said:

Bellsystem, Read through some BSPs and get some nice tools (crimpers, screwdrivers, pliers, etc off ebay/amazon) and go for it. Best way to learn anything (except maybe flying a jetliner) is to just go for it and experience it for yourself. These phones as you know are simple but also rather tough and forgiving. All the knowledge is out there if you seek it. Do not be afraid to take the leap on your own.

John/Alex, I think to fully understand and appreciate your combined wisdom and depth of knowledge, our seedling, Bellsystem, needs to grow a bit and face the weather on his own. Once a few mistakes are made and solved by his own hand (assuming he does so on his own), his minds eye may become opened. I consider myself to be very much a noobie to all this at just over a year in and I am regularly humbled by how much individuals like you know, especially given how many tries it took me to get my 500 L/M to actually work right  (First phone, first phone project....total clueless idiot at the time...)