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ATEA Model 51

Started by tubaman, June 24, 2019, 01:32:42 PM

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tubaman

Another Kettle Phone for my collection
This version doesn't seem to appear for sale too often so I snapped it up.
I got it for €35 (best offer) plus €14 P&P - approx $56 total.
It's in very nice shape and dates from 1955 so I think is one of the later ones.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ancien-téléphone-à-cadran-Atea-Automatique-Electrique-dAnvers/254259002329

I've given it a light clean and replaced the dial window as the original one had tape on it and also cracked as I removed the card holder.
The original dial card clearly shows its Automatic Electric roots.
:)

tubaman

A couple more pictures for you:

RB

Man, that's nice!

countryman

Indeed, and those original ones are rare. Most have undergone a stripping and copper plating process. This was done by antique dealers in the 1970ies/80ies after the Belgian RTT put them out of service. That way they looked more "antique".
I haven't found a european source for the dial card holder, will American Automatic Electric parts fit? They look similar. The card on my copper  >:( phone is just glued on. The "refurbishers" unfortunately did not care much about such details. Also, they often mixed up earlier and younger parts.

tubaman

Quote from: countryman on June 24, 2019, 02:57:15 PM
Indeed, and those original ones are rare. Most have undergone a stripping and copper plating process. This was done by antique dealers in the 1970ies/80ies after the Belgian RTT put them out of service. That way they looked more "antique".
I haven't found a european source for the dial card holder, will American Automatic Electric parts fit? They look similar. The card on my copper  >:( phone is just glued on. The "refurbishers" unfortunately did not care much about such details. Also, they often mixed up earlier and younger parts.
I've not seen this model copper plated before - only the RTT 56A/B versions (with the handle). This model 51 came before those.

I've just done a quick comparison of the dial card holder with an AE one, and yes they are the same (assuming you have an RTT56A and not a 56B as they have a different dial).
:)

countryman

Correct, mine is the version with the handle. Yet the base plate is stamped "1948", that seems to be original. Probably they mixed up parts on mine. It has no RTT sign, it might have been on a private exchange. The handset is different, too (the cord was fitted by me when I got it given in the eighties, it's from a pressing iron ;-) )The dial looks the same as yours. The actual card and plastic are in good order, but the holding clip is missing. Good to know I might order an american one some day!

Babybearjs

I noticed on one photo that it was marked "Automatic Electrique" did GTE have European offices back then? or were these all made in Canada?
John

rdelius

AE (pre GTE) had factories in England (ATM),Belgium ATEA, Italy Autelco among others. Those sets have nothing to do with Canada. I once worked on a set with 1944 dates with brown bakelite parts and brown paint. It had the push button on the front

Jack Ryan

The phone posted by tubaman is, as he stated, a Model 51. It was made by ATEA (an AE subsidiary at the time). It is what I would call a PAX version, but others disagree with that. It appears to be original to me except for the handset cord. It was made before the U56 and continued in production in parallel with the U56. The Model 50/51 does not have a handle.

The phone posted by countryman is a Model 50. The original finish has been removed, it has been copper plated, a handle has been added and it has the wrong handset.

The U56 was based on the Model 51 – it has a smaller button, a carry handle and a different handset (similar to the WE F handset). It was made by both ATEA and BTMC – the two versions were virtually identical but had different dials; the ATEA version had a version of the ATEA Type 24 dial and the BTMC version had a version of the BTMC 7000 series dial. The U56 and the Type 50/51 use an almost identical but different dial.

Most of the "Kettle Phones" are modified U56s.

The attached image is of a U56 with the older RTT logo. Later versions had RTT with overlapped letters.

Jack


Jack Ryan

Quote from: rdelius on June 24, 2019, 07:32:59 PM
AE (pre GTE) had factories in England (ATM),Belgium ATEA, Italy Autelco among others. Those sets have nothing to do with Canada. I once worked on a set with 1944 dates with brown bakelite parts and brown paint. It had the push button on the front

To be fair, they were not just AE factories.

When ATM was set up, AE had an interest in it but it did not own it. It was a company in its own right and developed its own products - often based on AE products but not always. ATM developed the SxS exchange in its own direction. At one point, WE had a license to distribute ATM SxS equipment (but not AE SxS).

ATEA existed before AE had an interest in it and developed its own products. After AE purchased ATEA, ATEA worked with ATM and independently to produce its products.

Autelco was also independent and designed its own products. Some were unique and others similar to AE products. For example, they made a phone that looked like an AE 40 but the insides were totally different.

The group, of course was more than the sum of the members. Each benefited from being part of the group.

I used "AE" to refer to the parent just for convenience.

Regards
Jack

tubaman

Quote from: Jack Ryan on June 24, 2019, 08:49:44 PM
..... It is what I would call a PAX version, but others disagree with that. ....
I wouldn't disagree - the earth button would have little purpose on a residential line.

Quote from: Jack Ryan on June 24, 2019, 08:49:44 PM
....It appears to be original to me except for the handset cord.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts. All the dated parts have 1955 on them, and I agree that the handset cord is likely a later replacement.

Quote from: Jack Ryan on June 24, 2019, 08:49:44 PM
...Most of the "Kettle Phones" are modified U56s.
That is my experience too. @countryman's is the first Model 50 I've seen that has had the copper treatment. Or perhaps the fact I've only ever seen them with a handle, which must have come from a donor U56, made me assume they were all originally U56s.
:)

Jack Ryan

Quote from: tubaman on June 25, 2019, 12:21:00 PM
I wouldn't disagree - the earth button would have little purpose on a residential line.

The transmitter cap is different as well. This type is similar to the cap AE used on its PAX phones. It generally indicated that a different transmitter element was being used.

Jack

tubaman

#12
Quote from: Jack Ryan on June 25, 2019, 09:43:17 PM
The transmitter cap is different as well. This type is similar to the cap AE used on its PAX phones. It generally indicated that a different transmitter element was being used.

Jack

That is interesting - you learn something new every day!
I was wondering why it is different to others I have seen on these phones. I just assumed it was a later type, but clearly not.
:)

Jim Stettler

Quote from: Jack Ryan on June 25, 2019, 09:43:17 PM
The transmitter cap is different as well. It generally indicated that a different transmitter element was being used.
Jack

Great observational rule-of-thumb
simple and succinct.
Jim
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

countryman

Quote from: tubaman on June 24, 2019, 03:24:00 PM


I've just done a quick comparison of the dial card holder with an AE one, and yes they are the same (assuming you have an RTT56A and not a 56B as they have a different dial).
:)

I can now confirm that American Automatic Electric dial card holders fit the belgian ATEA dials 100%.

BUT: French dials, which seemingly are based on the AE design as well, use the same stunning mechanism for the card, just a tad bigger in size! (maybe 4 mm)
The finger hole pattern is a little bit different, too. So some AE based european dial parts interchange with their american doubles, others don't.