302 Arrived today. Step by Step Cleanup. With photos.

[Dan/Panther]

Thanks everyone, I realize that most of what I did was probably very common knowledge, but I had a tremendous time exploring the insides of that phone, and seeing the nuts and bolts side of it, and sharing my excitement as well.
Like Bingster points out, maybe each person only found one aspect of the thread informative, or interesting, but collectively maybe someday many may find it a little helpful.
I know for my own purposes, I would welcome any form of photo tour through a different phone or parts of phones.

The internet is great, but nothing beats personal instructions from someone that's been there, and done that.

Once again, for future use, if I've left something out that's very important, or did something that may not be the best way to do it, make a note, and I will change it.
Like I said before, I don't think anyone learned more than I did.

D/P

Next I'm going to tackle my POTBELLY MANUAL CANDLESTICK. I'm going to start by putting a nice new coat of silver Rustoleum to cover up the worn inferior Nickel plating.
Any suggestions   Just wanted to see if anyone was paying attention ?

[McHeath]

Next I'm going to tackle my POTBELLY MANUAL CANDLESTICK. I'm going to start by putting a nice new coat of silver Rustoleum to cover up the worn inferior Nickel plating.

No no!  You need to go to Pep Boys and buy one of those cans of "Liquid Chrome" to spray paint it with to get that nice nickel finish look again.   

I recall when I bought a can of that paint in my teens to use on the bumper of my Chevy truck, convinced it would be shiny chrome just like the front bumper.  Alas, it's just silver paint.

[Dan/Panther]

I did buy a high dollar can of the Gold paint, and I will admit from across a room it looks like shiney brass.

About $9.00 for the can.
D/P

[Mark Stevens]

Wow D/P, you know your stuff!  Nice work. 

[JimH]

Dan,

You did a great job on that phone.  Congratulations!  You know, 50 years from now someone is going to take it apart and look at that gasket you made and argue with another collector that Western Electric made some of those phones with a foam gasket inside.

If you watch eBay you will see those dial card rings listed from time to time.  Be careful when buying one though as there are a lot of plastic ones out there.  They look OK but not a nice as the metal ones.  Oldphoneworks has decent generic reproduction cards.  They also have the celluloid covers.

I bought a dial plate from them with the overlay as opposed to paint on Porcelain for a person that wanted to save a couple bucks.  They don't look bad at all. 

There is some shadow here but you'll get the idea.  The finger wheel is original brass as is the dial card retainer ring.  The card is an Oldphoneworks reproduction.

Speaking of dials, Dennis, I know you've restored countless 1950s 500s...is there a difference to the "feel" of how each phone dials to you?  I've got some from 1955, 56,57,58 and '59 and some feel harder to crank around with your finger, some easier, some smoother, etc.  I know they're all 7C dials.  I didn't think there was much of a design change....would they, or should they all "feel" the same if they're torn down and cleaned properly?  My '55 is a lot smoother than my '57.  Any input would be appreciated.

[Dennis Markham]

Jim,

As I walk around my office and try the dials on the 20 or so model 500's that I have in here, pretty much the dials are the same.  However, once in a while one might stumble on one that grinds more, or returns a little slower than the others.  I've heard some called "growlers".  I would imagine manufacturing tolerance differences may exist.  But what I have learned from tinkering with them is that most can be made to be very smooth again.  There is one adjustment screw that can loosened and the brass frame be moved to improve the smoothness of the dial.  It often only takes a hair's width of movement to improve or worsen the dial action.  This is on the 7 series dial I'm talking about.  I'll take a photo or two, or look through what I already have and set you up.  Before long you'll be going through all your dials to make them smooth.  I'm talking about Western Electric dials now..the #7C and 7D series of the 50's and 60's.  I think this same type of mounting may even exist with the #6's too...can't remember off hand. 

As Arnold would say........I'll Be Back.

[Dennis Markham]

Here is a photo of the back of a 7D dial.  This will also apply to the #6 and all models of the #7.

Look at the photo attached.  There are two screws that hold on the dial gear assembly and the governor.  If the dial is grinding, growling or doing anything other than making a smooth return, it may need a simple adjustment. 

The screw on the bottom, right side should be loosened just about a half a turn.  Just to allow movement.  Then on the upper left hand screw loosen that and then you can move the entire assembly.  This will take some trial and error.  A movement of a hair width will made a difference.  Sometimes tightening down the screw again will move the assembly.  It takes some patience. 

Don't remove the screws all the way, just loosen them.  Once you've adjusted the assembly, re-tighten both screws and give it a try.  If it's worse or still not right, move it again.  The hole that the top left hand screw passes through is oblong.  As a rough start I split the difference and leave an equal amount of space on either side of the screw.  Most of the time that is a perfect alignment.

This particular dial obviously has not been cleaned.  Spraying the gears and axles with an electrical contact cleaner followed by a blast with compressed air will often get a sticky dial going again.

In another posting I will show some points to oil if oiling is needed.  A very fine sewing machine type oil is recommended.  A non-detergent oil.  WD 40 works great for instant relief but in no time it will dry and become gummy, causing you future problems.  Never oil or spray WD 40 in the governor. 

Hopefully I made this clear.  If not ask away.

Dennis

[JimH]

Here is a photo of the back of a 7D dial.  This will also apply to the #6 and all models of the #7.

Look at the photo attached.  There are two screws that hold on the dial gear assembly and the governor.  If the dial is grinding, growling or doing anything other than making a smooth return, it may need a simple adjustment. 

The screw on the bottom, right side should be loosened just about a half a turn.  Just to allow movement.  Then on the upper left hand screw loosen that and then you can move the entire assembly.  This will take some trial and error.  A movement of a hair width will made a difference.  Sometimes tightening down the screw again will move the assembly.  It takes some patience. 

Don't remove the screws all the way, just loosen them.  Once you've adjusted the assembly, re-tighten both screws and give it a try.  If it's worse or still not right, move it again.  The hole that the top left hand screw passes through is oblong.  As a rough start I split the difference and leave an equal amount of space on either side of the screw.  Most of the time that is a perfect alignment.

This particular dial obviously has not been cleaned.  Spraying the gears and axles with an electrical contact cleaner followed by a blast with compressed air will often get a sticky dial going again.

In another posting I will show some points to oil if oiling is needed.  A very fine sewing machine type oil is recommended.  A non-detergent oil.  WD 40 works great for instant relief but in no time it will dry and become gummy, causing you future problems.  Never oil or spray WD 40 in the governor. 

Hopefully I made this clear.  If not ask away.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis!  The advice and photo is awesome!  I am going to try this.  Can't wait to see the "oiling" photo.  The dial is the one part of a 500 I've always been "chicken" to tackle, thinking I'd mess it up.  I tore one apart recently and got it back together, but this will help me a lot.

[Dennis Markham]

Jim,

I made a separate posting here about oiling.  If you have additional questions, please contact me.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=285.0

Dennis

[Dan/Panther]

In another posting I will show some points to oil if oiling is needed.  A very fine sewing machine type oil is recommended.  A non-detergent oil.  WD 40 works great for instant relief but in no time it will dry and become gummy, causing you future problems.  Never oil or spray WD 40 in the governor. 

Dennis

Clarify that please Dennis, never oil the governor, or just never do it with WD-40.
I've used WD-40 to clean gummed mechanisms, but I always blow them dry when finished. Is this O.K. or NO oil or lube ever in the Governor ?
D/P

[benhutcherson]

Never oil the governor with ANYTHING.

[BDM]

Never oil the governor with ANYTHING.

Really? Why is that? I admit I've "dotted" oil at the gov contact points in the past. I've done that several times over the years with no obvious ill effects. But, if I'm doing something wrong, I'm all ears. BTW, I'm referring to No. #4 & 5 dials.

[Dennis Markham]

I was told once by Steve Hilsz never to oil the governor.  Steve has been repairing dials for people for many years and is well respected in the telephone collector community.  I have "heard" others say the same thing so I just never oiled the governors.  The reason I think, especially on the older dials, #5 and earlier is that the governor wheel has two rubber like protrusions that rub against the governor hub as the dial is spinning.  It acts much like brakes shoes rub against the brake drum on an automobile.  The friction slows the dial to the correct speed.  I would imagine that a lubricant on this part could affect the proper braking of the governor.  I know back when I used to put new brake pads on my car the last thing I wanted to do was get grease on the brake pad as it would smear inside the brake drum.  This seems similar to that.

Now I suppose that was probably a general warning----so that people didn't spry large amounts of lubricant onto the governor.  I would imagine spot oiling of the axles wouldn't do any harm as long as no lubricant spins onto the governor wheel and rubber contact points.  Just my theory as I have not researched this topic.

[bingster]

Western Electric was so against the oiling of dials, that the BSPs forbid the oiling of dials for any reason.  Repairmen were instructed to replace any dial which appeared to need lubrication.  The removed dial would be sent back for refurbishing. 

We don't have the luxury of replacing dials with new ones, of course, so we have to refurb them ourselves.  But I'll confess that I've never been all that careful about lubrication.

[benhutcherson]

A small drop of oil on the bearings of the governor is alright, or at least never has caused any problem for me.

What you really want to avoid, though, like Dennis said, is getting oil down in the governor. You can end up with the dial running too fast, and eventually, when the oil starts to collect dust, a dial that runs slow.

My first antique telephone was an AE40, on which the dial was completely stuck. I removed the dial from it, and sprayed it down with Radio Shack TV Tuner Cleaner(which contains mineral oil). It worked great for a couple of months, but then ended up completely stuck again. By then, I knew enough to fix it right, and since doing that, it has been 100% trouble free(just about four years now).

Bear in mind, too, that the governor is the fastest moving part of the dial. Because of this, and the associated reduction in torque, even a small amount of gummy oil can stop the entire dial.

Regarding WD-40-In general, I would suggest not using it for any kind of lubrication directly from the can. If, however, you spray some into a jar and let it sit for a week or two, it will separate out into an amber oil and a white, waxy stuff on the bottom. If you have access to a centrifuge, you can make this happen in about 5 minutes at 1000 rpm. In any case, the oil on top makes a decent lubricant.

My preferred dial oil, however, is Labelle #107. Labelle oils are synthetic light machine oils which are intended for things like model trains. They make excellent general purpose lubricants, and I've found #107 to be just about the right weight for dials. Labelle also is nice enough to package their oils in a handy bottle with a long needle applicator. They're also plastic safe.