Does a Panasonic 616/308 PBX need a proprietary telephone?

[cloyd]

In the set-up of a PBX, like a Panasonic KX_TA616, is a proprietary telephone needed in any way?  Can a P.T. expand the functions of the system?  Like, can it be used to turn the system off, or program the system to turn off, at night?

Thank you,

Tina Loyd

[poplar1]

It is not needed for the default program: dial 9 for an outside line, all phones ring on an incoming call from outside, and intercom calling from one phone to another, using a 2-digit extension number.

For anything else, yes, a proprietary Panasonic phone is needed to change the default programming: only certain phones to ring, night/day service, toll restriction, etc.

[Greg G.]

Thanks for jogging my memory.  I have a Panasonic 308 w/proprietary phone, but the handset receiver started acting flaky on me so I boxed it up for "later".  I always intended to learn how to program it, but so far haven't.  But first, I need to trouble-shoot the phone itself. 

[cloyd]

Once the PBX is programmed, does the proprietary phone have to stay connected?

I just took delivery of my new/old EasaPhone 30810.  The power light comes on, how else should I test it?
Where should I locate it?  I haven't found any kind of central hub for telephones except outside in a box.  I'm hoping that I don't have to pull new phone line!  Any advice as to where to start looking?

Tina

[AE_Collector]

I added "Panasonic" to the title of this topic since that is what the discussion seems to be about. The much more "general" reference to just a pbx needing a proprietary phone would not suggest the need for proprietary phones since pbxs from the early 20th century until the early 1980's werent electronic or digital thus there was no pbx that required a proprietary phone until then. Proprietary phones came along once phone systems became electronic with some pbxs supporting only analog phones, some supporting analog or digital (like these Panasonics) and some supporting propritary digital phones only like Norstars (for the most part).

I will move this to the Switching area of the forum as well.

As for installing a pbx in your home I will make some comments below.

Most older homes will have all phone wire feeding directly from the telephone protector which is very often olcated on the outside of the house, very often near the electric meter. Of course there are many exceptions. Around here much older homes, say older than 1960 usually had the prot inside by the electric panel. Some new homes now, maybe built in the last 10'years maximum will have prot on the outside but it feeds to a distribution panel inside where all the phone, network and CATV wire distributes from.

If installing a pbx of some sort in a house to be used on a daily basis as both access to your phone line and for its built in intercom and/or paging features, I would do the following. Install the system inside in a utility area where it isn't too difficult to run wire from. I would suggest terminating the phone system properly on punch down blocks such as 66, 110 or BIX. Take a good feed from there back to the prot or where ever your phone wires in the house ditribute from. Don't under do it, run ample pairs of wire to handle the main line or lines coming in and a pair for each station back out to the prot. This could easily mean 2 - 4 pair cables or more.

Ideally if your home is wired with station wire of two or more pairs and is all home runs you can change the jacks to double jacks everywhere with a pair of wire to each. Then you can set it up so the phone line goes direct (not through the pbx) to one of the jacks at each location allowing you to directly connect phones, answering machines, call displays etc. The other jack can be for a pbx station which needs to be connected at the prot to one of the pairs of wire you ran from the pbx  to the Prot.

If installing a distribution point within the house and you have the ability to run wire from there to the prot another possibilty to further enhance the flexibility would be to splice all set runs at the prot so that they all show up directly on blocks at the distribution area. Thus your phone line can be cross connected to whichever jack(s) you want and the same for the pbx. This would move all cross connecting from happening at the prot to happening at your new distribution point.

Remember, your direct phone line can be looped or home runs but the pbx pretty much needs a pair from each station to each individual jack. If you have a pbx port looped to some jacks they will all be the same station which will work for analog but not for digital (proprietary) phones.

There are infinite number of ways that a system can be installed and connected. I am a big proponent of doing things right the first time which then makes it much easier to change, rearrange or expand in the future without the need to basically start over and run more wire each time.

These pictures are a few years old now but here is my Home Distribution Area. DSC Security System on the left, BIX frame in the centre and Norstar CICS Key System on the right. I have everything on the BIX panel including phone runs, Norstar System, Network wiring and the Security System.

Terry

[podor]

I have a 61610 that we use daily. I have a split level house that is completely finished, so pulling new wire wasn't an option. I use VOIP, so the POTS has already been disconnected. My office, TV room and my oldest's room is on the lowest level. The next level up is our main living room, dining room and kitchen. The top floor is the master bedroom, and our other kids' bedrooms. My PBX is in my office with my phone display. I discreetly ran a CAT5 cable from my office to the TV room where the router and VOIP modem is. One pair carries the VOIP to the PBX, another carries the line from the PBX back to the phone in the TV room and another pair that goes to the TV room out to my garage. I ran an extension to my oldest's room next door. 2 lines go through the 2 pairs of the house wiring to the kids' rooms upstairs. I use 2 separate cordless phones, one in the kitchen and one in the master bedroom with the bases in my office. I have a programing phone so I could prevent the phones in the kids' rooms from ringing. It works fantastic. My wife doesn't have to yell that dinner is ready anymore. 

[cloyd]

I have a 61610 that we use daily. I have a split level house that is completely finished, so pulling new wire wasn't an option. I use VOIP, so the POTS has already been disconnected. My office, TV room and my oldest's room is on the lowest level. The next level up is our main living room, dining room and kitchen. The top floor is the master bedroom, and our other kids' bedrooms. My PBX is in my office with my phone display. I discreetly ran a CAT5 cable from my office to the TV room where the router and VOIP modem is. One pair carries the VOIP to the PBX, another carries the line from the PBX back to the phone in the TV room and another pair that goes to the TV room out to my garage. I ran an extension to my oldest's room next door. 2 lines go through the 2 pairs of the house wiring to the kids' rooms upstairs. I use 2 separate cordless phones, one in the kitchen and one in the master bedroom with the bases in my office. I have a programing phone so I could prevent the phones in the kids' rooms from ringing. It works fantastic. My wife doesn't have to yell that dinner is ready anymore. 

Podor,
This sounds like what I want for my home as well.  Phones/electrical work is not my area of training.  Though, I will throw down the gauntlet of challenge to teach teenagers high school biology!

I too, have three finished levels with cordless telephones on each level with the base on the main level.  Our modem and router are in the basement.  We have dual outlets for them and the base on the main floor.  Before we went cordless though, there were also phone outlets in the office, living room, and master.  I am hoping to make use of those lines.

My new/old 30810 is not behaving as a "plug and play" tool at the moment.  I do not have a Panasonic phone for programming but our everyday cordless is Panasonic.
I plugged it in and it powers on.
I connected the CO line to the CO input and the 30810 to the cordless phone and it still works fine.
I connected a working WE302 to one of the extension lines and it doesn't work.
I tried different combinations for the input and output lines and still, nothing for the 302.
I will go reset it now and try again but I am discouraged. 
UPDATE
Resetting allowed me to use two WE500's to call between them without the CO line connected.
All of the extensions were tested and it seems that no. 13 is faulty as I get no dial tone from it.
I have read the other information on connecting PBX's and understood maybe a quarter of it!
Are my old phones polarity sensitive?
Why does my 302 work when plugged into the CO jack but not in the PBX as an extension?
Two wires, four wires, red, green.  I have a suspicion that the answer lies there...somewhere.

UPDATE #2
I can dial 9 and get an outside line with one of my 500's.  Now I am pumped!
What is the problem with the 302???

Again, Thank you for the help!!

Tina Loyd

[AE_Collector]

Keep in mind that for initial testing you dont need to involve your CO line. Just power up the 308 and plug two analog phones into station jacks. If the 308 is working you should get dial tone on each of the phones from the 308. You should be able to make a phone call between the two phones. When you then connect your CO line to a line jack you will then be able to dial 9 to access the CO line.

I dont know anything more about the Panasonic pbx's but you may need to default it to restore it to the original factory settings. You may need to tell it that there is only one CO line connected so that dialing 9 grabs the correct line port every time. Others can tell you if the stations will be 21 to 28 once defaulted or some other numbers.

If there is no dial tone on any of the stations there may be a problem unless defaulting is needed to make the ports analog rather than digital. Someone will clarify this though there is probably lots of info already in other Panasonic PBX topics on this board.

Terry

[poplar1]

With the two 500s working, now try connecting the outside line to the first line jack. If you call your central office line (from a cell phone, for example), both phones should ring, and dialing 81 from either 500 should give you the outside line. Then try moving the CO line to the 2nd line port. Again, the 500s should ring on an incoming call, and dialing 82 should give you outside line ("line 2"). There may be a problem with the 3rd line jack, since there is a relay that transfers the 3rd line to ext. 13 when the power is off ("power fail transfer"), Otherwise, moving the CO line to the 3rd line port (jack), you should be able to dial 83 to reach that line.

Polarity won't matter for rotary phones, only for some Touch-Tone sets.

On the 302, make sure that only two line cord wires are connected inside the phone, usually red to L1 and green to L2Y.  If for example you are using a cord with modular plug on one end, and spade tips on the other, don't connect the yellow and black wires of this cord together inside the phone, or you will be shorting out the data pair in the 308. (Instead, connect the yellow wire by itself -- not connecting to anything else -- on the GND terminal, and tape up the black line cord wire.)

[jsowers]

One small additional consideration is any phone with an incandescent lamp will also short out the yellow and black pair of your Panasonic system, so you need to disconnect the lamp in the older non-modular Trimline and Princess sets. On modular sets like the 2702BM, just use a mounting cord with only two conductors.

This comes into play more in the testing stage. If you wire it into your house wiring, you can just not connect the yellow and black pair from the Panasonic to the house wiring and then light the phones with transformers at the wall jack or centrally if you like.

Modular Trimlines with LED lit dials will work OK as is.

[cloyd]

Poplar 1,
I tried your recommendations and the good news is that only the #13 extension is dead, not the #3 CO line (not that I need three incoming lines.  I would have rather had all 8 extensions.)  I made the changes on my 302 which meant reversing the positions of the red and green wires.  Still nothing.

Do I change the red and green wires back to the way they were?  You said that they are "usually" connected that way.

Any other ideas to make my old 302 work on the 308?

Tina Loyd

[AE_Collector]

You've checked that there isnt a yellow and black lead in the cord of the 302 that are somehow shorted together inside the 302 by being tied down under a single screw terminal or something similar as Poplar1 suggested?

Terry

[cloyd]

I sure did.  They were taped, separately, with electrical tape and anchored underneath the condenser.  I peeled the tape off the yellow spade and connected it under the ground.  Wired it just like Poplar described but it didn't work.  No dial tone.  I could try a different line cord but, if that was shorting, wouldn't it fail to work on the CO line?

Thanks to everyone for help with this!

Tina