Auction 43 - 1957 Western Electric 591 in Yellow

bingster · January 19, 2010, 12:45:56 AM

Jumping right into our next auction, we have a 1957 Western Electric 591. The auction listing gives the details of the history of the phone, but the gist is that this is the version made by Western Electric for independent phone companies. They're quite rare, probably because Automatic Electric, Kellogg and North had the independent market sewn up. Thanks to Dennis for suggesting this one.

What do we think this one will bring? Get your guesses in before the auction's final day, and you could be the next contest winner!

> 1957 WE 591 in Yellow <

S C O R E B O A R D

$55.97 - Bill Cahill
$75.05 - jsowers
$150.00 - Dan/Panther
$175.00 - bingster (Winner!)
Sold for $179.49
$198.97 - ntophones
$200.00 - McHeath
$236.64 - Brinybay
$250.00 - JorgeAmely
$262.19 - Dan
$276.87 - Dennis Markham
$300.00 - LarryInMichigan
$323.76 - Craig T
$467.73 - bellsystemproperty

Greg G. · January 19, 2010, 06:31:58 AM

$236.64

LarryInMichigan · January 19, 2010, 07:16:51 AM

I'll guess $300. Is that a AE dial? Did AE make their colors match the WE colors?

Larry

Dennis Markham · January 19, 2010, 09:03:30 AM

I'll go $276.87

~Dennis

jsowers · January 19, 2010, 09:27:41 AM

I'm going to guess $75.05.

That's definitely an AE dial and has anyone else seen a 591 with a dial from a different manufacturer like that? I've seen and own several 591s, some with ringers and some not, and all of them but this one have a WE dial. But I suppose since it's a 591 A/B then the A would denote a manual phone, like with the 500 set? Maybe someone who knows more than I do about that one can fill us in?

I never knew you could even mount an AE dial inside a WE phone. It's great how the colors match with yellow, but I have to wonder about the other colors. The rest of the phone, except the ringer, is WE and be sure to note the logo markings on the handset and base. You won't find "Bell System" on them, because it was made for independent telcos to use. The 593 is the wall phone equivalent of this set and rarer still. You can see some pictures on Paul's site of both of these phones and the logos. The wall set happens to be mine and it was the first soft plastic wall set I owned.

http://www.paul-f.com/we591.htm

Doug Rose · January 19, 2010, 09:31:23 AM

With my limited knowledge of 500 sets, I was under the impression a 591 was sold to the Independents complete, except for a ringer to be installed by the Independents. I have never seen one with anything other than an WE dial. Any information or comments will be appreciated....thanks....Doug

McHeath · January 19, 2010, 10:07:32 AM

I stumbled across this phone the other day and thought, "Too rich for my blood". It's a very cool and unique 500 and I'm guessing that it will go for $200 clams.

Dennis Markham · January 19, 2010, 10:52:21 AM

According to what Paul F. wrote on the ATCA list about THIS phone, they were offered in manual or dial sets (according to Graybar Catalog 12-T (1957). They were offered without ringers. Only W.E. dials appear in the dials section of the catalog. Another member wrote that an AE dial, which is a SATT dial (don't ask me to explain SATT dials--I know others can--Jorge a little help here) it COULD be modified to use in the W.E. for non party-line use.

Mr. Roger Conklin wrote: Unless this phone has been idle since it was used with the SATT party line
dial it would be quite likely that the frequency ringer would have been
replaced so it could be used with what today is normal, that is single party
service. The SATT dial would not cause any problem on a non-party line so it
would not have needed to be changed.

Though Paul's catalog did not reference AE dials in the 591 it seems it was possible that an Independent would be able to use an AE dial either modified for party-line use or not modified for single party use. It is unusual. I don't remember seeing another like it. It is not uncommon to see AE dials in the earlier 302 sets.

~Dennis

ntophones · January 19, 2010, 11:37:49 AM

I'll go with 198.97

Doug Rose · January 19, 2010, 01:28:11 PM

Quote from: Dennis Markham on January 19, 2010, 10:52:21 AM
According to what Paul F. wrote on the ATCA list about THIS phone, they were offered in manual or dial sets (according to Graybar Catalog 12-T (1957). They were offered without ringers. Only W.E. dials appear in the dials section of the catalog. Another member wrote that an AE dial, which is a SATT dial (don't ask me to explain SATT dials--I know others can--Jorge a little help here) it COULD be modified to use in the W.E. for non party-line use.

Mr. Roger Conklin wrote: Unless this phone has been idle since it was used with the SATT party line
dial it would be quite likely that the frequency ringer would have been
replaced so it could be used with what today is normal, that is single party
service. The SATT dial would not cause any problem on a non-party line so it
would not have needed to be changed.

Though Paul's catalog did not reference AE dials in the 591 it seems it was possible that an Independent would be able to use an AE dial either modified for party-line use or not modified for single party use. It is unusual. I don't remember seeing another like it. It is not uncommon to see AE dials in the earlier 302 sets.

~Dennis

Dennis...I agree about the AE dials on 302s. It is very common place to find them on a 302. This would be a little more extreme with the matching 500 face plate and to me it looks to be an exact match. I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Do AE and WE have the exact same colors in 500 sets. This is a very interesting phone....Doug

Dennis Markham · January 19, 2010, 03:46:21 PM

Doug, AE did have most of the colors similar to Western Electric. They had different names for them. Paul Fassbender has a color chart on his site and other information about the AE plastic sets.

http://www.paul-f.com/AEcolors.htm

Also the same company made the dial bezels for both W.E. and A.E. and perhaps others. I don't recall the name of that Company right off hand. Attached are two photos showing the maker's mark on each. The first is an A.E. dial bezel and the second is one from a W.E. 500 set.

~Dennis

jsowers · January 19, 2010, 04:16:27 PM

Gee, Dennis, I never knew that about the dial faces for both companies being made by EMCo. Thanks for teaching me something new! I've never heard what EMCo stands for.

I had seen it on the WE dial faces a lot on the 50s sets, but never on an AE. That would explain why the soft plastic dial faces from both AE and WE got moldy too. If you look on the ATCA picture place, you can see this phone before the seller cleaned it up and it has the same mold on the dial as WE phones often do. Interesting!

http://atcaonline.com/pictures/?id=267849920

If anyone (maybe Jorge?) has enough AE80s and WE500s from the same era, it would be nice to see them side by side for a color comparison.

JorgeAmely · January 19, 2010, 05:08:16 PM

Bingster:

Pencil me in for $250.

Jonathan: I can take a look at some AEs and give you a report later.

Regards,

Jorge

Dennis Markham · January 19, 2010, 05:49:37 PM

I just found some information from the archives at the ATCA. I had remembered reading it back in early 2008 when I saw it the first time. It is "believed" that EMCO was the makers mark of the Empire Molding Company. At the time of the members did some research but was unable to come up with any current information on the company. I have not tried to research the Empire Molding Company. It was further noted that Empire may have subcontracted these items to Stewart Stamping (of New York) which apparently made modular tips and strain relief parts as well.

There is a plethora of information available to members of the TCI and/or ATCA.

Dan/Panther · January 19, 2010, 06:11:04 PM

Not really into the hybrids, I guess I'm a purest.
$150.00.
D/P

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Auction 43 - 1957 Western Electric 591 in Yellow