WE 233G with 685A SUBSET wiring questions - with diagram

[runamok]

Hi all! New member and first time poster!

Hopefully I'm posting this in the right section, if not many apologies.

I have a Western Electric 233G payphone that my grandfather passed down to me. He worked for Bell Telephone after WWII and I used to play with it as a child.  It has been in storage for many years and recently I decided to restore it to working order for my home.

I have never worked on a phone before so it's been a steep learning curve trying to figure out how all the components and wiring work, lol! None of the subset wiring or relay wiring was initially connected, but after reading some diagrams here on the forum, I've been making some progress. 

I think I have it wired correctly back to original specs, but I am looking to use it for home use. I presently can receive calls, speak and hear on the handset, and it rings, but when I dial out the dial tone stays on.

So here are my questions, any help is greatly appreciated:
1. Do I need to bypass the coin relay in some way? 
2. Or can the relay be wired/pegged open to make the dial circuit work? 
3. Is the the original local ground not used anymore?
4. Is the coin relay currently wired correctly? (see diagram).

I made this visual wiring diagram for myself as I'm terrible with conceptualizing components on line diagrams.. Thought it might be useful for others.. I can update it if there are errors or when we solve the problem. 

233G wiring diagram:



Phone pics for anyone interested:

Dissasembled for cleaning



Restored with new locks and cards




< edit 02-09-22 : externally linked images attached >

[RB]

No replies yet huh?
I think that there is a switch assoc with the coin relay, that does need to close to get dial tone.
not sure how, exactly.
There is a fellow who makes controllers for payphones.
I think that would be your best bet.
keeps it original and all.
and you wont need to modify anything...after you solve the dialing problem.

[Jim Stettler]

If the payphone is wired to the original configuration, You can get a payphone controller that simulates a payphone line.
These are around $250.00 and are very nice.
There are also a few DIY payphone controller circuits that you can find on the internet.

[runamok]

Thanks for the replies!

The coin controller is a bit pricey for me at the moment, lol, although I would love to go that route in the future.

I cant seem to wrap my brain around how the coin relay/switches work, haha!

I'm hoping there is a quick fix or wiring bypass so that I can just use it as a regular non-coin operated phone for now.

[runamok]

Reposting the wiring diagram and pics.. I was asked by a mod to attach them directly, not as an external link:

[Jim Stettler]

Reposting the wiring diagram.. I was asked to attach it directly, not as an external link:

Welcome to the forum and thanks for reposting the image.
Posting directly on the forum keeps it around, external links tend to go away eventually.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a very nice drawing. I like the easy to read layout.
Please feel free to design more more phone  diagrams like this for the forum.
Members do appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jim

[RB]

I think, when you drop a coin, it lands in the coin relay and closes the switch.
That gives you dial tone. you can try a static drop into the hopper, and see which switch closes.
But, that is a coin first arrangement.
There are other methods, I don't know about.
Hope you get it working. that is a sweet phone!

[Jim Stettler]

I think, when you drop a coin, it lands in the coin relay :

Think of it as changing the state of the switch.
If the switch is open it closes it.
If the switch is closed it opens it.
---------------------------------------------------------
as a side note for the binary folk:
Joke: There are 2 types of folks, those who get binary
Jim

[FABphones]

Reposting the wiring diagram and pics..

Thanks for doing that. I can see the diagram detail much better now. Nicely done.   

Joke: There are 2 types of folks, those who get binary

Very good. 

[poplar1]

On coin first arrangement, the line was "ground start" meaning that there had to be a path to ground (through the relay contacts, once coins were inserted) in order to draw dial tone. However, all current lines are "loop start", meaning you should be able to get the phone working without inserting a coin. However, there may be "dial shorting" contacts on the relay which would prevent the phone from dialing out. As others have pointed out, you can just insert 2 nickels, 1 dime (or 1 quarter) to open those shorted contacts. Or, you can press down on the orange plastic lever of the coin relay. Since there is no 130 VDC received at the end of the call, (to collect or refund the coins, and to reset the relay), the lever will stay down and additional calls can be made without further action.

I think, when you drop a coin, it lands in the coin relay and closes the switch.
That gives you dial tone. you can try a static drop into the hopper, and see which switch closes.
But, that is a coin first arrangement.
There are other methods, I don't know about.
Hope you get it working. that is a sweet phone!

[runamok]

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

I found a workaround to bypass the coin relay entirely and got it working!

It can now dial out, receive calls, and it rings as a regular house phone.

Here is what I did for anyone interested:
1. Disconnected all wires going to the coin relay
2. Disconnected the brown and red wires from R and BKX on the upper housing terminal (the ones going to the coin chute mechanism)
3. Switched the red and black dial wires on the upper housing terminal so that red now goes to BKX and black goes to R.

Obviously this method doesn't allow for use of the coin relay or as a working payphone, but for home use, it still lets coins through the chute and dings/gongs..

I also used a small piece of wire to keep the coin relay open and pushed the coin return gate open inside the hopper as well, so now you can drop a coin, it gongs, then drops the coin directly into the coin return to be done all over again haha!

I'm happy that it was as simple as switching some wires and everything is still in place if I go the coin controller route in the future.

Anyway here is the updated 233G wiring diagram for home use and a pic of how I pegged the coin relay open: