W.E. 302 Desk Sets Introduced With Colored cases & Handsets - Unbeldi & Poplar1

[Ktownphoneco]

Unbeldi or Poplar1  :   Question : I'm sure one, or most likely both of you will know this;  when ( year ) did Western introduce the colored 302 sets ?   I've searched previous postings, but for whatever reason, I couldn't find anything pertaining to this specific question.     Thanks !

Jeff Lamb
 

[poplar1]

Plastic color 302s by early 1941.  Painted metal 302s are in the No. 10 Catalog, 1939, but I don't know when they started making them.

C30.011, "Colored Station Sets", was revised (Issue 4) 1-2-41 for the colored plastic sets, transparent finger wheels, and 92A Apparatus Blanks. I don't have Issue 3; perhaps the painted color 302s are discussed there.

[unbeldi]

The earliest painted metal-body 302 in the bright colors (blue, red, green, rose, ivory) we have discussed here on the forum have been from 1939, I think there was a Spring (?) 39 old rose, which has been the oldest. I think we also had a few ivory finished sets, including mine.  We had a few metallic hues, but I don't recall dates now.

I have seen a Pekin Red plastic handset dated 10-40, so the 1941 date for start of production of plastic sets is pretty safe and well documented.

[Ktownphoneco]

Thanks Umbeldi and Poplar1 for that information.    My question was generated by the information which you both supplied to me regarding the introduction of colored plastic 302 sets by Northern Electric, in which that company marketed a limited number of colored sets which were comprised of cases and handsets ( and most likely the matching cords ) made by Western Electric, while the remainder of the components were made by Northern.    According to Bell ( Canada ) Archives, the sets were made available, and again, in limited numbers, to customers in the Quebec and Ontario regions by Bell Canada.    There is some additional information which has been brought forward by Bell ( Canada ) Archives regrading metal 302's that were painted, and with stainless steel finger wheels, and the introduction of a clear plastic finger wheel in 1949.    But the information seems to relate to an "AT&T" Bulletin, and the problem I'm having is with respect to the correct translation of the information from French to English.    The bottom line is that I'm not sure if the information relates to a Northern Electric initiative as well, or is merely a reference to an "AT&T / Bell System (U.S.A.) / Western Electric" announcement which applies only to Bell System companies within the United States.
I'll let both of you know exactly what I find out once the language issues are straightened out and I can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Jeff

[unbeldi]

Thanks Umbeldi and Poplar1 for that information.    My question was generated by the information which you both supplied to me regarding the introduction of colored plastic 302 sets by Northern Electric, in which that company marketed a limited number of colored sets which were comprised of cases and handsets ( and most likely the matching cords ) made by Western Electric, while the remainder of the components were made by Northern.    According to Bell ( Canada ) Archives, the sets were made available, and again, in limited numbers, to customers in the Quebec and Ontario regions by Bell Canada.    There is some additional information which has been brought forward by Bell ( Canada ) Archives regrading metal 302's that were painted, and with stainless steel finger wheels, and the introduction of a clear plastic finger wheel in 1949.    But the information seems to relate to an "AT&T" Bulletin, and the problem I'm having is with respect to the correct translation of the information from French to English.    The bottom line is that I'm not sure if the information relates to a Northern Electric initiative as well, or is merely a reference to an "AT&T / Bell System (U.S.A.) / Western Electric" announcement which applies only to Bell System companies within the United States.
I'll let both of you know exactly what I find out once the language issues are straightened out and I can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Jeff

The 5J dial used in the early color (painted) 302s indeed used a stainless steel finger wheel.
The plastic wheel appeared first on the plastic sets in 41.  My guess would be that Northern Electric never got to make those, as it wasn't even two years before they were discontinued because of the war restrictions. The first type of clear wheel was abandoned after the war in favor of that with the latching mechanism.  This second clear finger wheel was available apparently right after the war, as we have found 5J dials dated in 1947, with that wheel.

One might guess why they needed 5J dials when no color sets were made until 49, but apparently one could special-order them nevertheless. I do have an ivory metal painted set that was assembled in 1947 with a 5J* 4-47 dial.

[Ktownphoneco]

Thanks that additional information Karl.     I'm keeping all of this information in one file for now.    I'm going to try and get a copy of the AT&T memo and see exactly what it says, and specifically to which company it was directed, Bell Canada, or Northern, or both.

I'll keep you and Poplar1 posted as to what I find out.

Jeff

[Jack Ryan]

The plastic wheel appeared first on the plastic sets in 41.  My guess would be that Northern Electric never got to make those, as it wasn't even two years before they were discontinued because of the war restrictions.

Canada's WW2 began in September 1939 so that is even more likely.

Jack

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I have a 1939 302 in Dark Gold, but it has clear plungers and an open-center fingerwheel, probably indicating either a refurb from an original '39 gold or a refurb from a '39 Black.

[unbeldi]

I have a 1939 302 in Dark Gold, but it has clear plungers and an open-center fingerwheel, probably indicating either a refurb from an original '39 gold or a refurb from a '39 Black.

Most likely it was also painted and assembled in the 1950s.   These set were constructed from old stock, and the metal housings are all from before WWII, as WECo didn't make new ones after the war.
They were again made starting in 1949, with some delay after the plastic sets, but only on special orders which were fulfilled not from the factory, but the distribution center shops.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Most likely it was also painted and assembled in the 1950s.   These set were constructed from old stock, and the metal housings are all from before WWII, as WECo didn't make new ones after the war.
They were again made starting in 1949, with some delay after the plastic sets, but only on special orders which were fulfilled not from the factory, but the distribution center shops.

Yes, I meant to say early fifties. It has a thick open-center, but also a gold card mask. Was this done this late?

[JimH]

I have seen a Pekin Red plastic handset dated 10-40, so the 1941 date for start of production of plastic sets is pretty safe and well documented.

Wouldn't a handset dated 10/40 point to a 1940 start of production of the colored plastic sets?  I have a colored set with a handset dated 10-23-40.  Are you referring to the catalog from Jan. 1941 that first lists the colored sets as the "official" start of production?  Is it possible that the plastics were made in advance, in 1940, and then assembled in 1941?  If so, wouldn't these sets have a 1941 chassis?  Also, I've always wondered, since my set from 1940 came without a dial, if it would have had a 5J dial with a stainless finger wheel, or an early plastic one. 

[poplar1]

The Jan. 2, 1941 date is actually on a Bell System Practice rather than a catalog. But you are correct that production dates don't necessarily correspond to BSP issue dates.

Are the other parts on your set dated 1940?

[JimH]

The Jan. 2, 1941 date is actually on a Bell System Practice rather than a catalog. But you are correct that production dates don't necessarily correspond to BSP issue dates.

Are the other parts on your set dated 1940?

Besides the handset, the handset capsules and base shell are dated 10/40.  I didn't get it with any other parts.  That's why I was wondering if the 5J dial should have a stainless or clear finger wheel.

[unbeldi]

Wouldn't a handset dated 10/40 point to a 1940 start of production of the colored plastic sets?  I have a colored set with a handset dated 10-23-40.  Are you referring to the catalog from Jan. 1941 that first lists the colored sets as the "official" start of production?  Is it possible that the plastics were made in advance, in 1940, and then assembled in 1941?  If so, wouldn't these sets have a 1941 chassis?  Also, I've always wondered, since my set from 1940 came without a dial, if it would have had a 5J dial with a stainless finger wheel, or an early plastic one.

The situation seems to be similar to the introduction of the colored 500 sets. The BSP was issued in December 1953, and while we have spotted a few plastic parts with dates in 1953, it seems they were not available widely until 1954, so I think it is more correct to pinpoint the introduction to 1954, and the introduction of plastic 302s to 1941.
These introductions were never just an event, but a process with many noteworthy occurrences.  In addition there was the delay due to the scheduling of order and inventory reports required of the operating companies to AT&T and Western Electric, which happened primarily on a quarterly basis. So, to have inventory available for, say, January 1941, they had to start manufacturing weeks if not months ahead of that time.

[poplar1]

It's interesting that not only the plastics, but also the receiver unit and transmitter unit in Jim's handset have 1940 dates. Even if the plastics were moulded ahead of time, why would they have been assembled with receiver and xmtr units, if these units are the original ones, if the phone was not assembled until 1941?

Some BSPs are issued (or reissued) ahead of availability, while others lag production by several years even. However, a close reading of C30.011 Issue 4 (1-2-41) does seem to indicate that production of colored plastic sets may have already started before that date:

           3. TELEPHONE SETS

                3.01     302  type  telephone  sets  of  plastic  material  are  now
                            available  in  ivory,  old rose,  dark  blue,  gray  green  and
            pekin  red  colors  as  indicated  in  Table  1(a).  The  305 type  set
            is  also  available  in  the  ivory  plastic  material.  These  sets  will
            be  furnished  in  place  of  the corresponding  "painted"  sets,
            parts  of  which  are  listed  in  Table  1(b)  for  maintenance  pur-
            poses  only.


                3.02     On  a  special  order  basis  involving  some  delay  in
                           delivery  304,  305  (except  ivory  covered  in 3.01),  306,
            307,  401,  410  and  411  type  sets  of  plastic  material  may  be
            obtained  in  the  colors  listed  in  Table  1(a).


               3.03     302  type  telephone  sets  in  oxidized  silver,  old  brass,
                           statuary  bronze  and  dark  gold  "painted"  finishes  as
            listed  in  Table  1(b)  will  continue  to  be  available  as  in  the  past.
            Other  telephone  sets  or  hand  telephone  sets  in  these  finishes
            or  any  other  painted  finishes  will, of course,  be  made  up  on
            special  order.   

                                                    ...

            9.  DIALS

                 9.01  When  ordering  a  dial  for  a colored  set  make  the
                          dash  number  in  the  code  of  the  dial  correspond  to  the
            color  desired  except  as  mentioned  later.  See  Table 1.  In the
            case   of  codes  with  dash  numbers  4, 5,  16,  18,  19  and  20  a  4J
            or  5J  type  dial should  be  used.  These  dials  have  white  enamel 
            cases.  4J  or  5J  dials  of earlier  manufacture  have  stainless
            steel  finger  wheels,  cardholder  frames  and  finger  stops  while
            dials  of  later  manufacture  have transparent  finger  wheels
            with  integral  cardholders  and  nickel  silver  finger  stops.