Correct 1937 WECO 302?

[Mr. Bones]

Mr. Bones, your 11-37 set has the "small ears" and, according  to the seller, the completely flat base. The one for $450, even though it has vents, has the standard 302 housing--"Tall ears" according to the seller.

I had noticed that, as well, but wasn't sure my ol' eyeballs were accurate. Maybe it came that way? Maybe not? For the considerable difference in price, I am quite pleased with what  I was able to come up with, and am extremely excited for it to arrive here at the KHUT.

      Hal's chart would tend to indicate that it should still have small ears, but as you so aptly pointed out earlier in this thread, we're still finessing the particulars down to more chronological specificity. Lots of fun in that, for me, at least.

Best regards!

     It will be interesting to see where that auction ends. Way beyond my means, for sure!

[poplar1]

Summary of dates documented from actual sets so far:


Housing:
      Small Plungers/Small "Ears" With Tel Set Mtg Code on outside over mouse hole:
                 "H1-3"................................4-37.........5-37*
                 "H1"..................................*7-37.......11-37
      Large plungers/Large "Ears"
                H-1 stamped outside.............11-37........7-38
                H-1 stamped inside...............7-38..........1954

Hand Hold:
     Metal:
         With "vents" for ringer....................4-37.....10-37       
        Without "vents"........................... 10-37......1942*
     Plastic.............................................*1946.......1954

Baseplate:
With 4 holes for Ringer Mount :
        Flat..............................................4-37...........11-37   Note: Cardboard pad under condenser
        1 boss for condenser mount............11-37..........8-38
        Add 2nd boss for inverted ind. coil..9-38...........2-39

Without holes for Ringer Mount
       2 bosses..........................................3-39............12-39
       Add 3rd boss for condenser...............1-40.............1954
With new steel ringer mount....................10-52............1954

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11422.msg121869#msg121869

[poplar1]

Other than the cords, ringer and dial gasket, this set purchased by Mr. Bones appears to be completely original. Those parts (except the modular line cord) could have been changed on a repair visit. The ATwater 5334 number card has not been updated. Since it AT 5334= only 6 dial pulls, this number would have been changed by the late 50s.

This set is much more interesting--as found--than one that has been "over restored" with the wrong parts, like the grooveless E1 pointed out by bdm.

Here is the complete description celnout gave for the phone purchased by Mr. Bones:

This is a "WESTERN ELECTRIC" model 302
metal base telephone.

Made in late 1937, this was the first year of
issue for the 302.

It is marked "37" on the 4H dial, the Frame,
and the Induction Coil.

The 149B dial plate is also marked "37".

The earliest 302s had vents in the rear and
smaller "ears" on the cradle. No vents on this one, but it does have the smaller "ears'!

The Fingerwheel is heavy Brass.

The paint wear is mainly on the cradle

The handset cord is rubber and the line cord
is new modular for easy connecting.

And yes, phone is in working order.

********************************************************** 
Questions and answers about this item

Q:  What dates are in the handset?483107
A:  Handle is "10-37", Tx is "10-37", Tx cap is "10-12-37". Rx is "8-11-37", Rx cap is "10-22-37".
    May 10, 2014
Q:  Is the date code on the dial IV-37 and on the 149B dial face IV-37?? Thanks, Mark
A:  Mark, The dial is III 37, faceplate is IV 37. Cliff 

[Fabius]

302s without the vents apparently started even sooner than 11-37. Here is one dated 10-37, and I found another incomplete 10-37 in my 1937 bin upstairs. Neither of these sets has vents.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191171878063

Also, the ringers were not dated in these early sets. And a ringer dated 4-38 was recently discussed on the forum: the date was in black but on the chassis, between the gongs, and not in the usual place on the coil.

Please bear with me as I'm not up on 302s  and their values. So is the reason that no one has hit the BIN because this does not have the vents?

[Doug Rose]

David...do you have any info on when the riveted feet were replaced by the screw on feet. That is the tell tale sign for me when sellers do not have the best pictures. Also did WE stop using the wood dial stop at any time. I have found many that were missing but I felt they were just lost....thanks...Doug

[Mr. Bones]

     Maybe a new wrinkle in the date chart, maybe kit-bashed from available parts? Apparently a 5-39, with vented handhold, and seamless E1 here .
     Looks pretty proper, from a tired, late-night glance through the pics. Dates will tell us more, though...doggone hard to say if it was made this way, otherwise, but not beyond the stretch of imagination...

Curiouser, and curiouser...

Best regards!

[poplar1]

David...do you have any info on when the riveted feet were replaced by the screw on feet. That is the tell tale sign for me when sellers do not have the best pictures. Also did WE stop using the wood dial stop at any time. I have found many that were missing but I felt they were just lost....thanks...Doug

Doug, I really don't have enough data to say for sure. There seems to be a lot of a changes in October-November 1937: the switch to "large ear" housings, the change from a cardboard mat under the condenser to an indented area, and possibly the change to screwed on feet. Perhaps the redesign of the baseplate to accommodate the seam on the condenser coincided with the redesign of the feet?

The oldest screwed-on feet I have are on a 10-37 baseplate.  I have readily available only two dated bases with riveted feet: one is 4-37 and the other is IV 37--that's not a typo. The IV 37 one is just the baseplate, not a complete phone.

As for the wood stop--these are often missing but I don't know if it's because they fell out or because they were no longer installed.

The biggest mystery to me is the choice of 4H or 5H dials, and of E- or F-type handsets. There was an overlap in production where both dial types were made from IV 36-II 38, and both E- and F- handsets were produced from late 1936 through at least March, 1939. Of course, they were making both D1s (202s) and H1s (302s) during those same years, but in any case, some new 302s ended up with either 4H dials or E1E handsets or both.

[poplar1]

On phones remanufactured in the WE shops, E1s were sometimes added, often with neoprene cords, even on plastic 302s. It's not likely that in 1939, this phone when new had either a 1936 or older E1 handset (no groove) or a hand hold with "vents."

The description says:
"Bought this at a estate sale from a man retired from the phone company. This was a project he never finished." It's obviously a recent paint job.  At a bare minimum, if you are disassembling multiple phones to paint, it would take some degree of attention to detail to keep track of which parts went with which phone--that is, if you even wanted to.

This seller has been discussed on the forum previously regarding his paint jobs. He seems to get high prices for his 202s and 302s. This is from another listing:
I purchased this phone at a estate sale with other antique items from a man retired from the phone company. I have been buying from him for over a year now and he has had a nice collection.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1939-Red-Metal-Western-Electric-302-F1-Rotary-Phone-/151291594478

     Maybe a new wrinkle in the date chart, maybe kit-bashed from available parts? Apparently a 5-39, with vented handhold, and seamless E1 here .
     Looks pretty proper, from a tired, late-night glance through the pics. Dates will tell us more, though...doggone hard to say if it was made this way, otherwise, but not beyond the stretch of imagination...

Curiouser, and curiouser...

Best regards!

[poplar1]

On phones remanufactured in the WE shops, E1s were sometimes added, often with neoprene cords, even on plastic 302s. It's not likely that in 1939, this phone when new had either a 1936 or older E1 handset (no groove) or a hand hold with "vents."

The description says:
"Bought this at a estate sale from a man retired from the phone company. This was a project he never finished." It's obviously a recent paint job.  At a bare minimum, if you are disassembling multiple phones to paint, it would take some degree of attention to detail to keep track of which parts went with which phone--that is, if you even wanted to.

This seller has been discussed on the forum previously regarding his paint jobs. He seems to get high prices for his 202s and 302s. This is from another listing:
I purchased this phone at a estate sale with other antique items from a man retired from the phone company. I have been buying from him for over a year now and he has had a nice collection.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1939-Red-Metal-Western-Electric-302-F1-Rotary-Phone-/151291594478

     Maybe a new wrinkle in the date chart, maybe kit-bashed from available parts? Apparently a 5-39, with vented handhold, and seamless E1 here .
     Looks pretty proper, from a tired, late-night glance through the pics. Dates will tell us more, though...doggone hard to say if it was made this way, otherwise, but not beyond the stretch of imagination...

Curiouser, and curiouser...

Best regards!

[BDM]

Gents what is a wood dial stop? I'm not familiar with this, thanks.

[poplar1]

Not sure what it's called but here's a picture of one in Bill's 3-37 set: See reply #5 pictures

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3128.msg41858#msg41858

Gents what is a wood dial stop? I'm not familiar with this, thanks.