My first dial candlestick!

[AdamAnt316]

Hello, everyone. I've been looking for a dial candlestick phone for a long time now, but they generally go for much more than I'd prefer to pay. This past weekend, however, I was searching the aisles at an antique radio swapmeet, of all places, when I came across what appears to be a 51AL along with a somewhat-anachronistic 315H magneto subset. It didn't show any of the hallmarks of being a fake, showing "American Tel & Tel. Co. on the transmitter tag, and being equipped with a WE 2AB dial with outboard fingerstop. I was unable to open the phone or subset while there, so the seller was willing to lower the price from $125 to $100, and it was mine. Here is a picture of it:



Both desk set and subset are in good shape cosmetically. The dial seems to move smoothly, with the expected clicking noise as it does. Once I did get the subset open, I discovered that the cord from the desk set is not actually connected to any of the terminals inside, and only has two wires inside the outer sheath, which makes me think it's from a power cord. The same may be true of the cord between the desk set and earpiece, but I haven't confirmed this yet. In any case, I think I did fairly well on the purchase.
-Adam

[Jack Ryan]

Hello, everyone. I've been looking for a dial candlestick phone for a long time now, but they generally go for much more than I'd prefer to pay. This past weekend, however, I was searching the aisles at an antique radio swapmeet, of all places, when I came across what appears to be a 51AL along with a somewhat-anachronistic 315H magneto subset. It didn't show any of the hallmarks of being a fake, showing "American Tel & Tel. Co. on the transmitter tag, and being equipped with a WE 2AB dial with outboard fingerstop. I was unable to open the phone or subset while there, so the seller was willing to lower the price from $125 to $100, and it was mine.

I think you did very well - congratulations!

I presume it is marked "51 AL" and that the "B" in the dial ID is struck out. I don't know why the B is struck out - perhaps it had a different number plate and it has since been replaced by a collector. The combination of a magneto subset and a dial is unusual and probably not original.

Both desk set and subset are in good shape cosmetically. The dial seems to move smoothly, with the expected clicking noise as it does. Once I did get the subset open, I discovered that the cord from the desk set is not actually connected to any of the terminals inside, and only has two wires inside the outer sheath, which makes me think it's from a power cord. The same may be true of the cord between the desk set and earpiece, but I haven't confirmed this yet. In any case, I think I did fairly well on the purchase.

A 2AB dial usually costs more than you paid for the lot so I think you are ahead no matter what.

You might want to find (or make) a CB subset so you can actually use the phone.

Jack

[RB]

Nice pic indeed!
A 3 or 4 wire cord, and a CB subset, and you are rollin!
Keep that 315 till you find a nondial stick, and you will have 2 nice phones.

[poplar1]

The model number should be on the back of the "perch." 50 AL and 51 AL require a 3-conductor cord to the subset. 151 AL requires a 4-conductor.

[AdamAnt316]

Thanks for the replies!

I think you did very well - congratulations!

I presume it is marked "51 AL" and that the "B" in the dial ID is struck out. I don't know why the B is struck out - perhaps it had a different number plate and it has since been replaced by a collector. The combination of a magneto subset and a dial is unusual and probably not original.

Well, 151AL, but yes. According to this page, Western Electric sometimes X'd out the second letter on the fingerstop marking of a #2 dial, and stamped another letter next to it. Best I can tell, no letter has been added next to the X'd-out B, so I'm not quite sure what to think.

A 2AB dial usually costs more than you paid for the lot so I think you are ahead no matter what.

You might want to find (or make) a CB subset so you can actually use the phone.

Good to know on the dial! Yeah, I have a couple of subsets around here which might work. Closest at hand is a 684, which probably would've been more typically used with a 102 or 202, but should work if I can find a proper 4 wire cord. I may have a 534 or 584 somewhere in the garage, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

Nice pic indeed!
A 3 or 4 wire cord, and a CB subset, and you are rollin!
Keep that 315 till you find a nondial stick, and you will have 2 nice phones.

Yeah, looks like I need a 4 wire cord; of course, the only one I have around here is 3 wire, so...  As I figured, the receiver cord is the same cloth-covered power cord as the 'line cord', but it appears that two wires is all that's needed for that, so I might be able to get away with it. As for the 315, I do have a 20AL or somesuch non-dial candlestick in lousy shape (someone stripped the paint off it at some point leaving the brass underneath, and the receiver cord has been replaced by an even-less-appropriate-looking rubber power cord), so perhaps I'll pair them. 

The model number should be on the back of the "perch." 50 AL and 51 AL require a 3-conductor cord to the subset. 151 AL requires a 4-conductor.

You are correct, the back of the perch indeed has "151AL" stamped on it. The '1' looks like it was added after the '51AL', and below it are a bunch of numbers which were X'd out, including a '20', which makes me think it was originally converted from a 20AL back in the day. I'll have to see if there are any markings inside the bottom of the base once I get the cover removed.
-Adam

[Pourme]

~

Good for you! Nice addition at a good price......I have yet to land my first dial stick. Glad for you!

[Jack Ryan]

Western Electric sometimes X'd out the second letter on the fingerstop marking of a #2 dial, and stamped another letter next to it. Best I can tell, no letter has been added next to the X'd-out B, so I'm not quite sure what to think.

Not just No 2 dials. The change was generally to reflect a change of number plate but in this case, it still has a B number plate. That is why I suggested that a collector changed the number plate back to original. I say collector because it is not properly marked (unmarked).

I have a couple of subsets around here which might work. Closest at hand is a 684, which probably would've been more typically used with a 102 or 202, but should work if I can find a proper 4 wire cord.

A 202 but not a 102. As your phone is a 151AL (anti sidetone), that would be OK.

I may have a 534 or 584 somewhere in the garage, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

That would make it sidetone but that would work

Yeah, looks like I need a 4 wire cord; of course, the only one I have around here is 3 wire, so... 

You can, of course, use the three wire cord with an AST subset while you look for a four wire cord. It will just be ST while you wait.

You are correct, the back of the perch indeed has "151AL" stamped on it. The '1' looks like it was added after the '51AL',

All 151ALs are refurbished - they were never made new so they will always have modified IDs.

and below it are a bunch of numbers which were X'd out, including a '20', which makes me think it was originally converted from a 20AL back in the day. I'll have to see if there are any markings inside the bottom of the base once I get the cover removed.

Most companies made good use of recycled parts - it just adds to the story!

Jack

[AdamAnt316]

Not just No 2 dials. The change was generally to reflect a change of number plate but in this case, it still has a B number plate. That is why I suggested that a collector changed the number plate back to original. I say collector because it is not properly marked (unmarked).

The thing which confuses me is the fact that the 'B' was X'd out, but nothing was stamped to its right as a correction. I'll have to see what, if anything, is stamped on the back of the dial housing. The outer rim of the dial has four patent dates stamped into it.

A 202 but not a 102. As your phone is a 151AL (anti sidetone), that would be OK.

Oops. What I meant instead is B1 and D1 handset mounts. Was the 684 widely used with 151AL candlestick phones, or would they generally have used a 634?

That would make it sidetone but that would work

Oops again, thought the 584 denoted the older-style large metal case anti-sidetone subset. Whichever subset it is, it was included with a D1 handset mount which still had the old-style E1 'spitcup' handset. I'll have to track it down before I make any assumptions.

You can, of course, use the three wire cord with an AST subset while you look for a four wire cord. It will just be ST while you wait.

That's one option. I'm also considering using a piece of quad cable in the interim for full anti-sidetone operation. I have some which was sold at Radio Shack back in the day which was meant for indoor or outdoor use, so it has a thicker jacket than normal.

All 151ALs are refurbished - they were never made new so they will always have modified IDs.

Yeah, figured that was the case. Just found it odd that the '1' at the beginning of the designation looks absolutely nothing like the '1' in the '51AL'. Was there such thing as a '150AL'?

Most companies made good use of recycled parts - it just adds to the story!

Yeah, telephone forensics is fun. It's always interesting determining what markings were originally under the blob of paint found underneath some 500/554 phones, not to mention deciphering the markings and symbols found on a 5302's baseplate. Another example from the 151AL which is the subject of this thread: I unscrewed the mouthpiece, and discovered that the transmitter bears what appears to be an orange date stamp of 11-37!
-Adam

[Jack Ryan]

Oops again, thought the 584 denoted the older-style large metal case anti-sidetone subset.

5xx generally denotes a sidetone subset. Add 100 to get an anti-sidetone subset.

Was there such thing as a '150AL'?

Yes, but WE didn't make it.

Both the WE 50AL and the WE 51AL were upgraded to the 151AL.

In Canada, there was no 51AL (1051AL), only a 50AL because NE got it right the first time (well, I suppose it's the second time as the first NE dial candlestick was the 20UN). NE upgraded their 50AL to a 150AL (1150AL).

Jack

[Ed Morris]

Nice find.  You never know what you might find at a hamfest or antique radio show.  A dial candlestick is on my bucket list, too.

[AdamAnt316]

Thanks for the reply everyone! I ordered a set of cords for this phone from OldPhoneWorks, since the two lengths of radio line cord aren't gonna cut it for actual use. Unfortunately, I really should've opened up the bottom of the phone beforehand:

No wires whatsoever!  Also, the terminal blocks inside weren't what I was expecting for a 151AL; only three instead of four terminals, one of which is missing a screw. Removing the hookswitch from the perch shows the following:

No wires there either, nor were there any in the receiver capsule (though I did find a date of DEC 29, as well as at least one terminal missing a screw). To prove the supposed pedigree of this phone:

So that's where things lie at the moment. What would my best option be with regards to wires? I'd rather not raid one of my other WE phones for them, and I'm not entirely sure I'd have much suitable, anyway. Thanks in advance!
-Adam

[poplar1]

Are there 2 terminal blocks in the base -- R and GN on one side, Y-B and RR on the other? The RR terminal doesn't require a screw since the 151AL doesn't use RR.

You will need 5 conductors from the base to the hookswitch (4) and the transmitter (1)....+ 1 wire from the hookswitch to the transmitter.

[AdamAnt316]

Are there 2 terminal blocks in the base -- R and GN on one side, Y-B and RR on the other? The RR terminal doesn't require a screw since the 151AL doesn't use RR.

You will need 5 conductors from the base to the hookswitch (4) and the transmitter (1)....+ 1 wire from the hookswitch to the transmitter.

As shown in the photo above, all I have are the Y-B/RR block, plus a second single (unlabeled) terminal block attached to two of the dial's mounting screws, along with a mounting bracket for something (noise filter?). No sign of the R-GN terminal block you speak of, nor any real sign of where it'd be. The dial has W-BB-BK-Y terminals, as seems to be usual.
-Adam

[HarrySmith]

Looks like you are missing a terminal board. There are pictures & diagrams here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8465.0

[AdamAnt316]

Looks like you are missing a terminal board. There are pictures & diagrams here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8465.0

Yeah, I've seen that photo. Not sure what happened to that terminal block in this particular 151AL. I have a non-dial candlestick deskset in rough shape which I may 'borrow' parts from for this 151AL, but I have no idea at the moment what's inside its base, either. And if I do, I'll have to find replacement parts (and wires) for that one, so.......... 
-Adam