Kellogg 1000 not dialing out

[Jimmy]

Hello all.  

This is a great and very informative forum.  I am new to the world of antique phones.  I have a restored fully functionally AE jukebox phone that I purchased on line a few years ago and really enjoy it.  At a recent auction, I found a Kellogg 1000 hc1 phone buried in a box lot of stuff and ended up winning the lot.  Now I am trying to get this phone in good working order.  As you see from the picture, the previous owner has replaced the original ringer, so this phone has already been tinkered with before I owned it.  Also, the previous owner, for whatever reason, painted the red line plunger black.  Don't know what they were thinking, the red line plunger is one of the coolest parts of this phone.

Here is what works.  I get a dial tone.  The phone rings  during an incoming call.  I am able to hear and to transmit voice over the phone.

Here is what doesn't work.  I am not able to dial out and will do my best to describe what is happening.  When dialing, the dial tone never goes away.  I first checked my phone line with the AE phone that I have.  I was able to dial out on the AE.  That rules out the phone line.  I have switched the polarity of the red and green incoming phone wires.  That would rule out the wiring from phone jack to phone.  I have rang out the four wire from the dialer to the four pin module that plugs into board in the phone.  Those are good.

Here is how the contacts operate when dialing the phone.  I have no idea on the proper operation of the contacts, but will try to explain how mine are working.  The contacts look to be properly aligned.  In their at rest state, the single set of contacts at the bottom of the photo are closed.  When dialing, the cam rapidly opens and closes these contacts and returns to the closed position after a number is dialed.  I have noticed some arcing while this contact rapidly opens and close while dialing.

The upper set of contacts.  Let's call the 3 contacts outer, middle, and inner.  In their natural state at rest all contacts are open.  While dialing, it appears like the outer contact closes with the middle contact, and then both outer and middle close with the inner contact.  The result is all contacts are closed while dialing a number.  When releasing the dial to spin back, the contacts stay closed until the dial comes to a stop, then the cam on the dial opens all of the contacts on the upper set of contacts as they were while at their at rest state.

Like I said, I know the previous owner has had this phone apart.  I have no idea what was done to it other than the ringer being replaced.  It is a cool phone that mostly works except dialing out and would like to fix that, if at all possible.  Thanks for your help.

[Dennis Markham]

Jimmy, Welcome to the Forum.

My original response to you was based my interpretation of the photograph....which was wrong and since been deleted.

Simply switch the black and green wires on the dial and see if that doesn't do the trick.  I'm basing this on a photo of one of my AE dials wired this way, although on mine the green wire is blue.  Try swapping those two wires.

~Dennis

[JorgeAmely]

Jimmy, Dennis:

I have one of those red bar phones. In mine the colors of the dial wiring matches the picture. However, it had some problems some time ago, which was caused by dirty hook switch contacts. Try cleaning those first to see if that helps.

[Jimmy]

Dennis, Jorge:
Thanks for your response.  I switched the black and green wires to no avail.  I then swapped out the telephone line with another from the phone to the wall jack.  For some reason, that has seemed to solve the dialing out issue.  With that solved, now I have a problem with my dialing out to the correct telephone number.  Usually I get the "I am sorry, your call cannot be connected as dialed" recording.  I did get through to another party on another try and also got someones voice mail on yet another try.  But, the majority of my outgoing calls end up with the recording.   I now have to dig through the message boards for my mis-dailing issue.  Tomorrow is another day.  Thanks again.

Jimmy

[JorgeAmely]

Depending where in the country you live, there is a number you can dial that will will reply back with your home number.

If the number is being misinterpreted, it could be due to the dial returning too fast or too slow. It should take about a second for the dial to return to the stop position after dialing a zero. Or better yet, dial simultaneously a zero on a good phone and this phone in  particular. They should reach the stop in more or less the same time.

[stub]

 Jimmy ,
            It looks like the distance from the impluse contact (the only one with the bent end) it too far from the impluse cam. Try this  with the dial upside down and turn the finger wheel to any number and hold it there while looking at the contacts. The impluse contact should close and almost touch the impluse cam( 1/32" ) on the flat side, before the cam moves. If the distance is correct you may have other problems as mentioned by the other members?  Hope this helps!!! stub
             

[Phonesrfun]

To me, the wiring of the dial appears to have the correct colors in the correct places, according to the photo posted. 

I would concur that the dial switch contacts are just too far away from the cam that opens and closes them.  If they are opening at all, the make versus break ratio is going to be all out of whack.  On a bad pull of the dial, you won't break dial tone, and at best, you will get wrong numbers.  I just don't think that cam is opening the pulse contacts wide enough for long enough.

When you move the dial fingerwheel off-normal, the pulsing contacts should move closer to the cam in preparation for the opening and closing action of the cam.  When the cam opens the contacts, I would say that you should see a gap of about 1/32 of an inch give or take.

-Bill Geurts

[stub]

Jimmy ,
            I repaired a dial just like yours today and found out how to fix yours. Please don't adjust as I said earlier!!!!!!!!  The 2nd contact is stuck (hung up ) on the 3rd contact. Just loosen the main screw that keeps all 3 contacts lined up and push down (gentlely ) on the 2nd contact so it will clear the offset in the 3rd contact. The brass piece, that is made on this contact (#2) , is hanging on the 3rd contact not letting the impluse finger make full contact.
            If you can't fix , send me a P M  and phone # and we will fix it right up.  Let me know!  stub