Painting Phone - Anyone Use Black Lacquer?

[Lewes2]

I'm getting ready to strip a badly chipped 302 metal body and paint it.  I've read through most of the threads in this section and I do not see any discussions about using black lacquer spray paint rather then enamel.  (no doubt there are some and I missed them!  )

Is there a reason why lacquer would not work?  It puts on a nice gloss finish, rather hard.  I think I would clear coat it for added protection but not sure what to use. 

Has anyone used lacquer?  Interested in hearing about your experiences.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I would go with Lacquer, only because some enamel paints that I have used in the past can take months to fully dry! Lacquer is very quick drying and does create a very glossy finish.

IMPORTANT: NEVER use a lacquer clear coat on top of an enamel paint layer, because the paint will bubble up, destroying the finish.

I use Rust-Oleum lacquers, they work very well. I have no idea why, But their regular enamels take a very, very long time to fully dry, but are pretty tough when they're done drying.

[Lewes2]

Thanks Christian.

I was looking at the 202 thinking that might look rather elegant painted a nice ivory but I'm unsure how good the handset would look painted.  But perhaps I should practice with the black first.

Chuck

[poplar1]

Chuck, here is one painted ivory by the WE Repair Shop in 1955. These were called "Continentals" when reissued in 1955.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191326923395

[unbeldi]

I think a 202 in ivory looks very elegant.  Here is a Continental on which I only had to touch up the handset with spray paint. The caps were worn quite a bit. The housing is original and almost flawless.

Paint:  Rust-oleum 249073 Satin Ivory Silk

[Lewes2]

Boy, I really like that ivory color.  A lot!  Thanks Poplar and Unbeldi for posting the photos. 

A quick question for Unbeldi, you mention a specific Rustolium paint  (Rust-oleum 249073 Satin Ivory Silk)

When I go to the Rustolium site, it shows this paint not as a lacquer but rather an enamel.  Have you had any drying long drying issues that Christian mentioned?  But also come to find out it's difficult to locate lacquer in colors other than gloss black, gloss white and gloss red. 

Chuck

[unbeldi]

Boy, I really like that ivory color.  A lot!  Thanks Poplar and Unbeldi for posting the photos. 

A quick question for Unbeldi, you mention a specific Rustolium paint  (Rust-oleum 249073 Satin Ivory Silk)

When I go to the Rustolium site, it shows this paint not as a lacquer but rather an enamel.  Have you had any drying long drying issues that Christian mentioned?  But also come to find out it's difficult to locate lacquer in colors other than gloss black, gloss white and gloss red. 

Chuck

I have not had real problems with drying, but it is not a very fast drying paint. I would leave it alone for a day. I am not in a hurry and neither are these phones, they have waited a long time for a new coat.

I chose this paint because I felt it was the best color match to the housing that I could find at the Home Depot; there were many choices.  I like the paint to be matt (satin) to start, because it can usually be polished to higher gloss if desired.

Here is a 1947 metal 304 with the same paint, before it got a matching handset cord. The phone was originally ivory, but the paint was very deteriorated in many places, with some corrosion spots. At first I thought the phone would only be good for parts. The line cord I used for this phone is an later WECo 3-pair round ivory plastic cord and the color of this paint matches it perfectly too.

I have not used these phones much to see how durable the paint is. It wasn't the primary goal.

[TelePlay]

Over a year ago, I was asking the same question, I found sites, usually car sites, that go into the pros and cons of each. Below is one I just found that is what I've found many times. I've copied the test from that site should the link below fail to work some day in the future. I'd say guys who do professional car work have a good idea of what each provides. This article describes both finishes. I've found that a higher ceramic content paint cured, or baked, in an oven provides a very good finish. IIRC, Sargeguy said 10 minutes at 150 degrees works for him. Correct me if I got that wrong. My notes are downstairs but I think those were the parameters.

I found the points in the article about lacquer having a low tolerance to UV and chemicals and that it dries out and cracks over time interesting. Maybe those who have used one or the other, or both, would like to comment on the point within this article. After researching paints a year ago, I decided to go with enamel and a nice, inexpensive toaster oven for painting phones and phone parts. This is the high ceramic semi-gloss black paint,  DE1635 - Ford Semi-Gloss Black , I have used with a primer and baking with success.

Here's the car paint article. ( . . . keep in mind this is article is one that well summarizes what I have read in at least 5 similar articles quite well - there are others such articles out there available by a google search for "lacquer vs enamel vs acrylic" )

--------------------------------------------------

Enamel Vs. Lacquer Car Paint

"Lacquer paint and enamel paints have been in debate for a very long time. Today, money, time, health, effort and results play big roles in consumer choices. Several key facts about these paints can help you make the best decision for your car.

Purpose

    "Lacquer paint is best for an antique or classic car restoration that will then be displayed indoors, with extremely limited use. The paint does not hold up well to UV and chemical exposure and is known to be a pretty short-lived paint job due to its soft nature. Enamel paint is much more durable, more chip resistant and holds its shine exponentially better, with a harder shell formed, so it's best on cars that will be parked outside for show and driven frequently.

Application

    "Lacquer paint is a very thin, easy-to-apply compound that goes on smoothly and evenly, even for DIYers, but because of this, takes an average of 20 coats to get the desired shine and coverage. Though it dries quite quickly, adding layers and layers extends the dry time, and because lacquer paint has no chemical resistance, which causes it to dry faster, it also never stops drying, which leads to cracking and dulling of the paint's finish, usually within a year if outside. Enamel paint is much thicker and more difficult to apply, so it's recommended for experienced painters. Though it usually takes two to three coats to get the desired looked, professional application is recommended because there is much more finishing work, and the longer drying time can be speeded up by intense heat. Enamel has a glossy finish with a longer life, but frequently has to be accompanied with a base and/or clear coat application.

Considerations and Warnings

    "Lacquer is extremely toxic, due to the vapors that are present during application, and is illegal in most states, like California. Due to its toxic nature, its use has been largely discontinued, which makes it harder to find as well as much more expensive. Though anyone can apply it himself with ease, it requires a fresh air breathing system to do so. Enamel paint is readily available but needs to be professionally applied unless you're highly experienced. Though it does not require a fresh air breathing system, it usually requires a clear coat and chemical hardeners, which are very toxic, leading one to use a breathing system anyway. Lastly, a very important thing to note is that enamel paint can be used to cover lacquer paint, but lacquer can never be used to cover enamel, which would ruin the entire paint job."

[Lewes2]

Thanks for the interesting article, John.  The one thing that caught my eye is the last sentence wherein it says that an enamel paint can be used to cover lacquer but not vice versa. 

Lacquer has the advantage of being very thin compared to enamel.  The paint (?, japening?) apparently used on 202s and metal 302s is very thin also.  I'm wondering if using black lacquer  covered with a coat of clear coat enamel would work?  That might be more durable than using black lacquer covered by a clear coat lacquer.  However, having said all this, it's not like the phone is going to sit out in the driveway, exposed to the elements.  The phones will be "driven" very gently by little old ladies, usually on Sunday phoning in their lottery picks.

chuck

[TelePlay]

. . . I'm wondering if using black lacquer  covered with a coat of clear coat enamel would work?  That might be more durable than using black lacquer covered by a clear coat lacquer . . .

Interesting, never tried that. Wonder if the clear coat over lacquer would keep the lacquer from drying to the point of cracking over time? It's that "20 coats of lacquer to get a shine" that caught my eye. Maybe a few coats of lacquer and clear coat would be faster.

And keep in mind that all of those posts on the forum about bleaching, oxidizing, dying and sanding phones and cords to get them back to their original color were devised by members because the phone's original color was degraded by fluorescent light, sun light, humidity, smoke, hand oils, cleaning chemicals and who knows what else. Chipping from normal wear and tear is not the only enemy of coatings. There is even a topic post in here somewhere that shows neoprene feet on a phone closest to an outside wall rusted more than those farthest from the outside wall - most likely from temperature/humidity variations daily over time.

I'd think powder coating is the thickest re-coating.

Most members have used trial and error to come up with their "best" way to paint, some have shared their methods on the forum.

[jludtxs]

Does a painted F1 handset hold up? I have been just assuming that the paint would come off easily and be a hassle but I would love to hear from anyone with experience with this. I have a gold spraypainted 202 that looks really bad and was going to go back to black and do a pink finger wheel and pink cords and bottom but if paint will hold up on the handset, I might rethink it to paint the phone and handset pink and do the fingerwheel in polished brass. I am open to any advice on paints.

[unbeldi]

Does a painted F1 handset hold up? I have been just assuming that the paint would come off easily and be a hassle but I would love to hear from anyone with experience with this. I have a gold spraypainted 202 that looks really bad and was going to go back to black and do a pink finger wheel and pink cords and bottom but if paint will hold up on the handset, I might rethink it to paint the phone and handset pink and do the fingerwheel in polished brass. I am open to any advice on paints.

In general, paint today, each type used for the appropriate application, is much better than the paints used in the 1930, 40, 50, and perhaps a little later. Moreover, hobbyists can apply paint today at home with ease and achieve results only possible in professional settings back then.

Keeping paint from peeling and chipping on frequently handled objects was an ongoing struggle back then. This influenced even the shape of some items, such as the groove-less brown F1 handset, because the edges of the groove would be cause for chipping.  These problems with paint were at first a major driver in the acceptance of colored plastics starting in the 30s, and especially after WWII with the onset of consumerism.

During the 40s, advances in polymer chemistry and chemical instrumentation (IR, NMR) provided a new foundation for paint technology, and as a result in the 1950s, WECo started painting standard black F1 handset in color for the Continental-series of 202s.  From the samples we find today, some of those held up to usage quite well.

But nothing is forever.  The computer keyboard I use is missing about half of the lettering on the key caps, with about half a dozen keys being completely blank. It takes only about three years or so to get to this stage from being brand-new, and I am on my third of this type of keyboard that I like.

So, in the end the only remedy to wear is not to use the item. Are you using your F1 handset really that much to worry about wear?  Given the many telephones a collector may have, excessive wear might be easy to conquer.

But in any event, proper and careful surface preparation before painting will probably go a long way toward wear resistance. Don't touch those surfaces with bare fingers after thorough cleaning and drying, but I have to say that I probably didn't follow that advice myself, and those handsets in the pictures still look like right after I painted them.

[Lewes2]

Unbeldi - after you touched up your Continental with Satin Ivory Silk paint, did you shoot it with a clear coat semi gloss or gloss? 

The reason I ask it just painted an F1 handset with the Satin Ivory Silk paint.  The color is perfect but it does not have the same luster or gloss as an Imperial handset I just received.   I am inclined to "gloss" it up a bit but was curious what the real McCoy looks like.

Thanks

[unbeldi]

Unbeldi - after you touched up your Continental with Satin Ivory Silk paint, did you shoot it with a clear coat semi gloss or gloss? 

Nope, just the paint.

The reason I ask it just painted an F1 handset with the Satin Ivory Silk paint.  The color is perfect but it does not have the same luster or gloss as an Imperial handset I just received.   I am inclined to "gloss" it up a bit but was curious what the real McCoy looks like.

Naturally a satin finish is not very glossy.
You can try polishing it with Novus 2 or Novus 1.  Paint polishes usually very nicely.