automatic electric subset to western electric 202

[garyferguson56]

Anyone have any idea is this the proper wiring? I have been playing around and have the phone working but not sure if it is correct.

[Babybearjs]

it needs a induction coil.... is there one in the subset?

[unbeldi]

Anyone have any idea is this the proper wiring? I have been playing around and have the phone working but not sure if it is correct.

Just by looking at the terminal board of the induction coil in your picture, it is not possible, I don't think, at least hard, to determine what kind of induction coil it is, unless someone has the exact matching type and can compare.  I believe that both the Booster coil as well as the anti-sidetone induction coil for common battery service could have used the same terminal board.

A WECo 202 requires an anti-sidetone induction coil, unless you want to wire it only as a 102.  How many conductors does the mounting cord contain?  Am I correct that I see four in your picture?

Does the induction coil have any markings at all to identify it?

Can you draw a connection diagram of your work so far?

[unbeldi]

I am going to take a little guess now, based on the connections that I do see on the terminal strip, and say it may be a 7006 subset.

This diagram is from a 1929 bulletin catalog.

[unbeldi]

Is there anything connected to terminal no. 6, other than your black-traced mounting cord wire?
I see solder on the lower end of the terminal, but I am not sure that anything is really attached.

Based on what I think I see, I am thinking that perhaps there should be a jumper between 2 and 3.  I don't think your wiring enables anti-sidetone operation.

However, in principle your connections appear correct, as far as red, green, and yellow are concerned, which establish the principle operation of the set as a sidetone instrument.


[PS:  a lot of 'thinking' here... your input would provide some confirmations or not, lol.]

[garyferguson56]

it needs a induction coil.... is there one in the subset?

i believe that is under the terminal board

[garyferguson56]

Anyone have any idea is this the proper wiring? I have been playing around and have the phone working but not sure if it is correct.

Just by looking at the terminal board of the induction coil in your picture, it is not possible, I don't think, at least hard, to determine what kind of induction coil it is, unless someone has the exact matching type and can compare.  I believe that both the Booster coil as well as the anti-sidetone induction coil for common battery service could have used the same terminal board.

A WECo 202 requires an anti-sidetone induction coil, unless you want to wire it only as a 102.  How many conductors does the mounting cord contain?  Am I correct that I see four in your picture?

Does the induction coil have any markings at all to identify it?

Can you draw a connection diagram of your work so far?

the cord has four but it isn't an original. there are no markings on the case that I can see as far as model. the terminals are marked 1 to 7 with no color designations like WE. I am new to this so bear with me. I will post some more pictures soon.

[unbeldi]

Anyone have any idea is this the proper wiring? I have been playing around and have the phone working but not sure if it is correct.

Just by looking at the terminal board of the induction coil in your picture, it is not possible, I don't think, at least hard, to determine what kind of induction coil it is, unless someone has the exact matching type and can compare.  I believe that both the Booster coil as well as the anti-sidetone induction coil for common battery service could have used the same terminal board.

A WECo 202 requires an anti-sidetone induction coil, unless you want to wire it only as a 102.  How many conductors does the mounting cord contain?  Am I correct that I see four in your picture?

Does the induction coil have any markings at all to identify it?

Can you draw a connection diagram of your work so far?

the cord has four but it isn't an original. there are no markings on the case that I can see as far as model. the terminals are marked 1 to 7 with no color designations like WE. I am new to this so bear with me. I will post some more pictures soon.

No problem, go by your pace.  We need to make sure we know what kind of induction coil it is.  A good start would be to simply count the number of wires soldered to the seven terminals.  Two of them should have spade connectors, I think, those are the two wires going to the ringer coils.  They put spades on them so the ringer can be easily swapped out if needed.  That is also indicated on the diagram that I posted.  One of the spade connectors can be moved between terminals 5 and 6.  For metallic ringing, which is what you want today, it should be on 5.  6 is for grounded ringing.

I do think we are already on the right track, since you reported that the set is basically working.

[garyferguson56]

I was going to put up more pictures but for some reason they are getting an error. each termanl is connected to something except number 6 which just has my black wire on it.
try this link to my pictures

http://eye.fi/SqoFVm

[garyferguson56]

didn't see this before on the bottom of the actual coil is D281901A

[unbeldi]

didn't see this before on the bottom of the actual coil is D281901A

Ok, that confirms it all.

The D-281901A was a standard induction coil used by AE in the 1930s in many of the Monophones and the Type 31 subscriber set. So, your set is probably a Type 31.   In any case, you even have the wiring schematic label glued to the cover.  It is the same diagram that I posted, only drawn in a slightly different layout.
Here it is again, cut out from your picture.

[garyferguson56]

yes i tried to go by that but the colors dont match so i didnt know how to use it. dont forget it is a western electric phone I am trying to hook it to.

[unbeldi]

yes i tried to go by that but the colors dont match so i didnt know how to use it. dont forget it is a western electric phone I am trying to hook it to.

Yes, I know.  In addition, the subset is actually not strictly compatible with the wiring of Western Electric handset mountings.   Automatic Electric's anti-sidetone circuit was different in principle at the time from that by Western Electric.  AE actually called it anti-sidetone Booster circuit.  The circuit is the same as used in most Monophones before the AE-40 in 1939, for which AE finally adopted the Western Electric circuit.

The differences are hard to show or explain using the 'official' wiring diagrams, so I always like to work with newly drawn circuit diagrams, that explain the functioning.  I drew such a diagram for this set onto a WE 634A circuit showing the differences, when I first responded.  Perhaps now is the time to show that too, as we now have confirmation of the type of device you have.

[garyferguson56]

im using it because i have it but maybe I should look for a western electric subset. I do have a mini network that I bought I could use that and just use the bell from the subset. It does work now I just don't know if it is okay and not hurting anything.

[unbeldi]

I do think you got the basics correct.

Here is the diagram I was talking about.   The original diagram in black lines is for a 202 connected to a 684A or 634A subset.

In red I marked the terminal points in the AE subset that could be taken as equivalent.  The 684A subset has two condenser (=capacitors), but the AE has only one, so I crossed it out and put in the red strap.
The anti-sidetone winding of the induction coils is used differently between these sets.  In order to achieve a somewhat equivalent diagram, terminal 2 and 3 need to be connected to enable some kind of anti-sidetone action.  However, this is rather dubious technically, because the windings are not designed to tuned to be used in WECo circuit, so it may just be better to leave out the compensation.

I don't think it is hurting the receiver, and I'll go over the two circuits again later with more thoughts perhaps.