ringer issue

wds · October 23, 2011, 09:43:01 AM

Unfortunately, I couldn't make the cut on my ringer without disassembling, but it looks like you should be able to slip a hacksaw blade in the and make the cut.

HarrySmith · October 31, 2011, 09:22:33 PM

Got a cap as suggested but it is still not working. I will be bringing home a saw and making some cuts next. Will post process and results.

HarrySmith · November 07, 2011, 07:36:01 PM

Cut some and tried it again, still not working, I got nervous about cutting some more so I decided to pull out my meter and do some checking. I get about 28 volts coming into the phone for ringing. When wired into the phone I get 24 at the ringer. With the 250 volt cap it gets cut in half to around 11, with the AE .47 cap I get only 6 volts. Is this all correct? Remember I am not an electrician or an ex telco guy, this is the first time I have even measured ringing voltage. I only did this to be sure the ringer should be working before cutting more. Also I think I need to get a phone tester of some sort rather than hooking to my phone line as I only get a few rings before voicemail picks up so it makes it difficult.

LarryInMichigan · November 07, 2011, 07:50:47 PM

Quote from: HarrySmith on November 07, 2011, 07:36:01 PM
Cut some and tried it again, still not working, I got nervous about cutting some more so I decided to pull out my meter and do some checking. I get about 28 volts coming into the phone for ringing. When wired into the phone I get 24 at the ringer. With the 250 volt cap it gets cut in half to around 11, with the AE .47 cap I get only 6 volts. Is this all correct? Remember I am not an electrician or an ex telco guy, this is the first time I have even measured ringing voltage. I only did this to be sure the ringer should be working before cutting more. Also I think I need to get a phone tester of some sort rather than hooking to my phone line as I only get a few rings before voicemail picks up so it makes it difficult.

How are you measuring the voltage? The ringing voltage is 20Hz AC, typically 90V. You cannot measure that with a DC voltmeter.

Larry

Phonesrfun · November 07, 2011, 07:52:48 PM

Harry, I am coming into this kind of late, but if you are trying to turn a frequency ringer into a straight line ringer, my own experience is that you might as well try to turn lead into gold.

Just my two cents.

Phonesrfun · November 07, 2011, 07:54:12 PM

Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 07, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
How are you measuring the voltage? The ringing voltage is 20Hz AC, typically 90V. You cannot measure that with a DC voltmeter.

Larry

Don't forget that the ringer coil, whether straight line or frequency is going to create a load, and reduce the measured voltage across the ringer coils, even if he measures AC.

HarrySmith · November 07, 2011, 08:03:22 PM

I was measuring DC.

LarryInMichigan · November 07, 2011, 08:07:27 PM

I don't think that a DC voltage measurement across the ringer will tell you much. There is no real DC voltage there.

Have you tried loosening the nuts which hold the clapper assembly to the ringer body to see if the clapper moves?

Larry

GG · November 08, 2011, 05:58:35 AM

Something else to try while adjusting frequency ringers: reverse the line polarity. Yes this actually matters.

Last night I made a surprising discovery.

Kellogg 1000, D1000 HC 4K 15-G, with frequency ringer. Connected to extension output of Panasonic KXTDA-50 PBX.

Someone had slightly modded the ringer already such that it would make a quiet ring by tapping on one gong only. I fiddled with the clapper/weight position to try to get it to ring more loudly and strike both gongs: this didn't work, nor did adjusting the position of the "silent" gong.

Then on a lark I tried reversing the red & black leads from the Kellogg ringer. Voila! a louder ring, hitting both gongs! Next I put the ringer wires back to their normal positions and reversed the line polarity coming into the phone: the effect followed the polarity.

I do not think Panasonic uses a pulsed DC wave for ring voltage. There may be some slight offset or bias one way or the other, but not by much. And I think this effect may be interactive with the ringing condenser in the K-1000.

Nonetheless, getting a pesky frequency ringer to ring even quietly on 20 Hz, is always a good thing.

HarrySmith · November 08, 2011, 09:21:14 PM

Success!!!
I removed about 2/3 of the "reed" and it rings! It is not as strong or loud as it should be but it is good enough. I also had to enlarge the mounting hole on one of the gongs as the clapper would not strike it. I tried reversing the polarity and it made no difference. Even though I did it wrong checking the voltage at least confirmed I was getting juice at the ringer! Thanks for all the advice guys.
At least we know a frequency ringer can be made to work!

AE_Collector · November 08, 2011, 09:48:22 PM

Out of curiosity, if the phone and ringer were in regular use do you think it likely that the reed would eventually crack and break from flexing since you have chopped away at it?

Terry

LarryInMichigan · November 08, 2011, 10:12:21 PM

If the reed is cut to reduce its width and not its thickness, I wouldn't expect that it would be any more likely to break than it was originally.

Larry

AE_Collector · November 08, 2011, 11:19:25 PM

Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 08, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
If the reed is cut to reduce its width and not its thickness, I wouldn't expect that it would be any more likely to break than it was originally.

Larry

Yes but I assume it flexes when it is ringing to allow the clapper to move back and forth? Now a rough cut has been put into it which leaves a point for a crack to start from as it vibrates. It would probably take a lot of vibrating before that would happen but it seems like it could.

Terry

Phonesrfun · November 08, 2011, 11:35:43 PM

Quote from: HarrySmith on November 08, 2011, 09:21:14 PM
Success!!!
I removed about 2/3 of the "reed" and it rings! It is not as strong or loud as it should be but it is good enough. I also had to enlarge the mounting hole on one of the gongs as the clapper would not strike it. I tried reversing the polarity and it made no difference. Even though I did it wrong checking the voltage at least confirmed I was getting juice at the ringer! Thanks for all the advice guys.
At least we know a frequency ringer can be made to work!

Well, I'll be danged.

keep up the good work.

GG · November 09, 2011, 02:59:56 AM

Re. cracking of the reed: depends in part on how skillfully the "nibbling" was done. If the nibble started a crack, the crack could propagate. If the nibble was clean, probably not.

One way to test that would be to find a frequency ringer, do a skillful nibble, remove the gongs and just hook it right up to a 20 Hz ringing supply, for example one of those big power supplies from a 1A2 system. Then let it "ring" continuously for however-long, and check on it a couple of times a day.

If in service it would ring let's say ten times a day for one minute per occurrence, at conventional USA ringing cadence: call it 3-1/3 minutes of ringing per day, total of about 20-1/4 hours per year, or just over 811 hours in 40 years.

That translates back to 33-3/4 days of continuous ringing on a 1A2 ringing supply. So if your test ringer survived at least a month plus a few days of that treatment, it would have survived 40 years in fairly heavy real-world usage.

One sample does not make a statistically valid test, but at least it's an indication.

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ringer issue