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D1 202 with 634BA-3 Subset Troubleshooting

Started by GLadstone, May 18, 2018, 03:50:41 AM

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GLadstone

#15
Hi Everyone,

Quick update:

From the TCI Library Wiring Diagram section:

202B C D Tel WE9 1935

I see that the Red mounting cord at R is part of the dial "switch" (is there a "proper" name for this?) connection.

I've been wondering if the "goo" pictured in the first post is creating a connection...



I'll now start searching for dial cleaning topics and see if cleaning this "goo" helps.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!

Take care,
GLadstone

poplar1

What happens if you connect the two red wires together, but instead of on R terminal of dial, just connect both red wires to each other?

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

GLadstone

Hi poplar1,

Quote from: poplar1 on May 24, 2018, 03:52:32 PM
What happens if you connect the two red wires together, but instead of on R terminal of dial, just connect both red wires to each other?

Thanks for the suggestion!

When both red wires are connected together (separate from the dial R terminal), calling the phone results in a busy signal.

Take care,
GLadstone

GLadstone

Hi Everyone,

Quick follow-up:

I scraped some of the easy to reach "goo" off the dial "switch" with toothpicks.



And, used a jumper cable in place of the mounting cord to connect:
Subset 101A coil R --> brown / red cloth Handset cord (off of D1 202 base dial R)



Calling the phone with this jumper cable connection results in a busy signal.

Take care,
GLadstone

GLadstone

Hi Everyone,

Another quick update:

I found this in another topic (Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets):

Quote from: poplar1 on February 02, 2018, 11:09:58 PM
With all the wires removed from the coil, the 146C and 101A induction coil should have approximately the following resistances:

                     L1-R = 22 ohms (primary)

                     GN-C = 19 ohms

                     GN-R =  75 ohms

I've removed all the wires from the 101A coil in the 634BA-3 subset and tested the resistances.

Here are the readings I am seeing:

L1 - R = 22.2 ohms

GN - C = 20.4 ohms

GN - R = 71.4 ohms

Take care,
GLadstone

poplar1

In the rest with the blue patch cord, is the plunger pushed down?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

GLadstone

Hi poplar1,

Quote from: poplar1 on May 24, 2018, 07:17:15 PM
In the rest with the blue patch cord, is the plunger pushed down?

Sorry for not clarifying!

The phone was tested with the plunger pushed down.



The photo was "staged" and taken after testing to show the jumper cable connections.
In the photo, the line cord is not connected and the plunger is not pushed down.

Take care,
GLadstone

poplar1

#22
Try it as a manual set (no dial):
Yellow from L2 in subset to Y hookswitch
Black handset to BK hookswitch
Green from GN in subset to GN hookswitch
White handset to W hookswitch
Red from R in subset to R terminal in 202
Red handset to R terminal in 202

If that works (transmits, receives, disconnects*), then add the black mounting cord conductor from BK in subset to BK hookswitch terminal in 202.

If that doesn't work, then ,try this:
PROC 2:
When a 202 is off-hook, and the dial at rest, the connections are equivalent to the following:

White handset cord to GN on 101A (receiver)

Red handset cord to R on 101A (common transmitter/receiver)

Black handset cord to L2-Y (transmitter)

If you connect as above (no mounting cord connections in the subset), then you should be able to hear dial tone, transmit and receive.
Disconnecting the black handset wire disconnects the transmitter, which will then allow the line not to be busied out.

Adding the capacitor black wire to L2 and red capacitor on C:
With the black handset wire not connected, and the plunger up, you should not have dial tone, but the line should not be busied out. However, if you call your landline from a cell phone, you should be able to hear the incoming ring through the 202 receiver. (Or, if you pick up another phone on the line, you should be able to hear dial tone on the 202, and the other phone should be able to dial out with a rotary dial. This is like "monitor" on a butt set.)

Again, removing the black handset wire (but leaving the black capacitor wire on L2) should again unbusy the line.

If that don't work, je donne ma langue au chat.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

GLadstone

Hi poplar1,

Wow-- Thank you!

I really appreciate all your help troubleshooting this set!

I'll print this out and get things set-up.

Let's hope the cat does not get your tongue!

Take care,
GLadstone

Haf

Quote from: GLadstone on May 25, 2018, 03:18:26 PM
Let's hope the cat does not get your tongue!


Oh the cat will keep it, keep secret secret and give it back to you when you need again, so nothing to worry about :)

Haf
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
1-415-449-4743
1-604-757-7474

GLadstone

Hi Haf,

Quote from: Haf on May 25, 2018, 03:48:35 PM

Oh the cat will keep it, keep secret secret and give it back to you when you need again, so nothing to worry about :)

Haf

That's a pretty cool cat!  8)

;D

Take care,
GLadstone

GLadstone

#26
Hi poplar1,

I'm working my way through your suggestions and wanted to take a moment to share the preliminary results.

I also wanted to check-in and make sure I am understanding your instructions, since the results are not what I was expecting...

---

Procedure 1:

Quote from: poplar1 on May 24, 2018, 11:31:37 PM
Try it as a manual set (no dial):
Yellow from L2 in subset to Y hookswitch
Black handset to BK hookswitch
Green from GN in subset to GN hookswitch
White handset to W hookswitch
Red from R in subset to R terminal in 202
Red handset to R terminal in 202


Setting the D1 202 base phone like this results in:
-No dial tone
-The subset rings whether the plunger is up or down


As a double check, here's a photo of the D1 202 base set-up in this configuration for testing:


And, a text summary of the connections:

Mounting Cord (inside D1 202 base):
Black --> (Not connected)
Yellow --> Hook switch Y
Green --> Hook switch GN
Red --> R Terminal

Handset Cord (inside D1 202 base):
Black cloth --> Hook switch BK
Brown / White cloth --> Hook switch W
Brown / Red cloth --> R Terminal

Disconnected in this photo:
-Black mounting cord
-Black cloth jumper cables on the dial
-Line cord

No changes were made in the 634BA-3 Subset.

634BA-3 Subset Connections (as described in the first post):

Quote from: GLadstone on May 18, 2018, 03:50:41 AM
Line Cord (to wall):
red to L1 (101A coil)
green to L2Y (101A coil)

Mounting Cord (to phone):
red to R (101A coil)
yellow to L2Y (101A coil)
green to GN (101A coil)
black to BK (wood block)

Ringer:
black to K (wood block)
red to L1 (101A coil)

449B 0.5MF (under wood block):
gray to K (wood block)
yellow to L2Y (101A coil)

447A 2MF (under metal bar):
black to BK (wood block)
red to C (101A coil)

101A coil:
GN --> green mounting cord
R --> red mounting cord
L2Y --> yellow mounting cord
L2Y --> green line cord
L2Y --> yellow 449B 0.5 MF
L1 --> red line cord
L1 --> red ringer
C --> red 447A 2 MF

Wood block:
BK --> black mounting cord
BK --> black 447A 2 MF
K --> gray 449B 0.5 MF
K --> black ringer

---

Procedure 1 Continued:

Quote from: poplar1 on May 24, 2018, 11:31:37 PM
If that works (transmits, receives, disconnects*), then add the black mounting cord conductor from BK in subset to BK hookswitch terminal in 202.

Since the phone did not work as expected in this manual configuration, I did not add the black mounting cord to the D1 202 hook switch.

Instead, I disconnected everything inside the D1 202 base to try Procedure 2.

---

Procedure 2:

Quote from: poplar1 on May 24, 2018, 11:31:37 PM
If that doesn't work, then ,try this:
PROC 2:
When a 202 is off-hook, and the dial at rest, the connections are equivalent to the following:

White handset cord to GN on 101A (receiver)

Red handset cord to R on 101A (common transmitter/receiver)

Black handset cord to L2-Y (transmitter)

If you connect as above (no mounting cord connections in the subset), then you should be able to hear dial tone, transmit and receive.


In this configuration, the phone only gets dial tone.
(Calling the phone results in a busy signal.)


As a double check, here's a photo of the handset cord from the D1 202 base connected to the 634BA-3 Subset for testing:


And, a text summary of the connections:

Handset Cord (from D1 202 base to 634BA-3 Subset):
Black cloth --> L2-Y (101A coil)
Brown / White cloth --> GN (101A coil)
Brown / Red cloth --> R (101A coil)

Disconnected in this photo:
-Line cord
-Inside D1 202 base:
--Black cloth jumper cables on the dial
--Mounting cord connections
-Inside 634BA-3 Subset:
--Mounting cord connections

The rest of the 634BA-3 Subset connections:

Line Cord (to wall):
red to L1 (101A coil)
green to L2Y (101A coil)

Ringer:
black to K (wood block)
red to L1 (101A coil)

449B 0.5MF (under wood block):
gray to K (wood block)
yellow to L2Y (101A coil)

447A 2MF (under metal bar):
black to BK (wood block)
red to C (101A coil)

101A coil:
GN --> green mounting cord
R --> red mounting cord
L2Y --> yellow mounting cord
L2Y --> green line cord
L2Y --> yellow 449B 0.5 MF
L1 --> red line cord
L1 --> red ringer
C --> red 447A 2 MF

Wood block:
BK --> black mounting cord
BK --> black 447A 2 MF
K --> gray 449B 0.5 MF
K --> black ringer

---

Based on the results I've been getting so far, I have not yet attempted any of the following (Procedure 2, continued):

Quote from: poplar1 on May 24, 2018, 11:31:37 PM
Disconnecting the black handset wire disconnects the transmitter, which will then allow the line not to be busied out.

Adding the capacitor black wire to L2 and red capacitor on C:
With the black handset wire not connected, and the plunger up, you should not have dial tone, but the line should not be busied out. However, if you call your landline from a cell phone, you should be able to hear the incoming ring through the 202 receiver. (Or, if you pick up another phone on the line, you should be able to hear dial tone on the 202, and the other phone should be able to dial out with a rotary dial. This is like "monitor" on a butt set.)

Again, removing the black handset wire (but leaving the black capacitor wire on L2) should again unbusy the line.

---

Thank you again for your time, patience, and assistance!

Take care,
GLadstone

poplar1

Quote from: GLadstone on May 25, 2018, 11:41:41 PM

---

Procedure 2:
(Calling the phone results in a busy signal.)


As a double check, here's a photo of the handset cord from the D1 202 base connected to the 634BA-3 Subset for testing:


And, a text summary of the connections:

Handset Cord (from D1 202 base to 634BA-3 Subset):
Black cloth --> L2-Y (101A coil)
Brown / White cloth --> GN (101A coil)
Brown / Red cloth --> R (101A coil)

Disconnected in this photo:
-Line cord
-Inside D1 202 base:
--Black cloth jumper cables on the dial
--Mounting cord connections
-Inside 634BA-3 Subset:
--Mounting cord connections

The rest of the 634BA-3 Subset connections:

Line Cord (to wall):
red to L1 (101A coil)
green to L2Y (101A coil)

Ringer:
black to K (wood block)
red to L1 (101A coil)

449B 0.5MF (under wood block):
gray to K (wood block)
yellow to L2Y (101A coil)

447A 2MF (under metal bar):
black to BK (wood block)
red to C (101A coil)

101A coil:
GN --> green mounting cord
R --> red mounting cord
L2Y --> yellow mounting cord
L2Y --> green line cord
L2Y --> yellow 449B 0.5 MF
L1 --> red line cord
L1 --> red ringer
C --> red 447A 2 MF

Wood block:
BK --> black mounting cord
BK --> black 447A 2 MF
K --> gray 449B 0.5 MF
K --> black ringer

---

Based on the results I've been getting so far, I have not yet attempted any of the following (Procedure 2, continued):

---

You should have dial tone, he able to transmit, and the line should be busied out because there is no disconnect switch in the circuit. However, removing the black handset wire from L2 should disconnect the phone (not busied out if you call from cell).
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Quote from: Haf on May 25, 2018, 03:48:35 PM

Oh the cat will keep it, keep secret secret and give it back to you when you need again, so nothing to worry about :)

Haf

In French, "je donne ma langue au chat" means "ok, I give up."
So, when John F. Kennedy visited Berlin, did he say "I'm a Berliner" or "I'm a jelly doughnut"?
("Ich bin ein Berliner." )
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

GLadstone

Hi poplar1,

Quote from: poplar1 on May 26, 2018, 08:15:43 AM
You should have dial tone, he able to transmit, and the line should be busied out because there is no disconnect switch in the circuit. However, removing the black handset wire from L2 should disconnect the phone (not busied out if you call from cell).

Thank you for the follow-up about Procedure 2-- I'm glad you haven't given your tongue to the cat yet!  :)

---

I guess I need some more clarification regarding the definitions of "transmits, receives, and disconnects" as well as what successful tests should look like.

Currently, my frame of reference for "transmits" and "receives" has to do with the handset. For example:
-Transmits = speak through the handset (sound is transmitted)
-Receives = listen through the handset (sound is received)

When I hear the term "disconnect," I think of "disconnect the phone" (i.e., "hang up the phone" or "end the call.")

Do these terms mean something else when testing the phone like this?

---

To double-check what I posted yesterday, I just re-connected the phone for Procedure 2 as described above.



Short summary:
-Everything is disconnected from inside the D1 202 base
-The mounting cord is disconnected within the 634BA-3 Subset
-The three cloth handset cords from inside the D1 202 base are connected to the 101A coil inside the 634BA-3 Subset:
--Black cloth --> L2-Y (101A coil)
--Brown / White cloth --> GN (101A coil)
--Brown / Red cloth --> R (101A coil)


In this set-up:

Dial tone is heard when the plunger is both up and down.

Calling this phone results in a busy signal (so, I cannot test handset transmission and reception).

---

Continuing Procedure 2 by disconnecting the Black cloth handset cord from the 101A coil L2Y terminal results in no dial tone through the handset.

Calling the phone set-up like this results in the subset ringing whether the plunger is up or down (so, I cannot test handset transmission and reception).

---

Thank you for your time and assistance!

Take care,
GLadstone