Another 302 that won't ring

[gands-antiques]

The ringer for this phone is reasonably loud when tested with my telephone tester but when I wire the ringer in the phone I get no ring. I've checked the wiring several times but I can't figure out how to get it to ring, 


Any help will be appreciated!!

Thanks,
Gary     

[Phonesrfun]

It looks to be wired correctly.  Red ringer wire to L1, Black ringer wire to K, Yellow condenser wire to L2/Y and slate condenser wire to K.

When you tested the ringer on the tester, did you test it with the condenser in series with the ringer?  Maybe the condenser is bad. 

[LarryInMichigan]

It looks to me like the clapper is trapped against the left gong.  Try rotating the gong a bit.

Larry

[gands-antiques]

Bill,

No condenser was in series during test.  Maybe it is a bad condenser.

I moved the gong away from the clapper but still no ring. 

I'll see if I have a phone with a good condender and swap them out.

Thanks,
Gary

It looks to be wired correctly.  Red ringer wire to L1, Black ringer wire to K, Yellow condenser wire to L2/Y and slate condenser wire to K.

When you tested the ringer on the tester, did you test it with the condenser in series with the ringer?  Maybe the condenser is bad. 

[gands-antiques]

Is it normal for condensers to go bad?  very often??

Bill,

No condenser was in series during test.  Maybe it is a bad condenser.

I moved the gong away from the clapper but still no ring. 

I'll see if I have a phone with a good condender and swap them out.

Thanks,
Gary

It looks to be wired correctly.  Red ringer wire to L1, Black ringer wire to K, Yellow condenser wire to L2/Y and slate condenser wire to K.

When you tested the ringer on the tester, did you test it with the condenser in series with the ringer?  Maybe the condenser is bad. 

[dsk]

No condensers/capacitors are usually of high quality, I guess on a failure rate of approx 2-3 % on my rotaries, and some more on the touch tone's.

When you have the ringer in the phone (and you know it was working outside) be sure the moving parts move as they use to.  You if you just put a strap between the gray ringer wire, and the L2 screw and test it on your tester (remember to keep the hook switch in on hook position) It should ring, if it not ringing without the strap, the capacitor, or capacitor wires are broken.

Lots of other things may disturb it, 2 wires touching metal body or each other, a wire making a mechanical break ....

Usually when I find out whats wrong, I feel stupid not seeing that simple error before

dsk

[Phonesrfun]

Is it normal for condensers to go bad?  very often??

Not often, but yes, they can go bad.  However, usually when they go bad there will be some "leakage" of current across the cap.  Not leakage in the form of something actually leaking out of the cap, but leakage of current that will cause the phone to "trip" the ringing current and cause the ringer to kind of ring a short burst and then the phone acts like it answers, even though it hasn't gone off hook.

[Phonesrfun]

Gary:

It sounds like you are taking your phone collecting to a new level and that is the level of working on them, which I find to be more rewarding than dusting off the shelf queens.

I would recommend a couple of things to read which might help in the understanding of the electronics behind the phones.  One is a book sold by Ralph Meyer called "Old Time Telephones! "  That one you'll have to pay for, but contains lots of good information.  Ralph has also been conducting a free refresher class on the TCI listserve and has saved all the class notes for future reference.

The second resource would be a free downloadable Army manual from the 1950's which covers the technology of the 302 phones and actually all telecommunications of the time period, including switchboards and automatic switching equipment.  That manual is available on Colin Chamber's web site www.oldphoneguy.com ( dead link 03-18-22 ) then choose the section called Big Books in the margin and then choose the Army Manual called Fundamentals of Telephony.

Both resources cover the theory, history and functionality of the phones and the various components used in phones and their properties.

Also, check out the links to these and other phone related books right here in this forum at this link.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=69.0

Happy Reading!

[gands-antiques]

Bill,

I really appreciate the information. Yes, I really have contracted a bad case of phoneitis.  I will start reading some of the material you recommended. 

Besides these few 302s that I have with ringing issues, I am also working on a WE 653. The end of the capacitor is separated from the tube and I am going to try to put another capacitor in it.   

I believe you told me to add a 0.5 ?? in line capacitor to boost the capacitors on my 302s.  Do you know where I can get the capacitor and what the specific description I should ask for? 

I have had a lot of 202s and 302 in the past couple of years but for some reason I have several of each that I haven't been able to get running yet.

Thanks a lot,
Gary 

Gary:

It sounds like you are taking your phone collecting to a new level and that is the level of working on them, which I find to be more rewarding than dusting off the shelf queens.

I would recommend a couple of things to read which might help in the understanding of the electronics behind the phones.  One is a book sold by Ralph Meyer called "Old Time Telephones! "  That one you'll have to pay for, but contains lots of good information.  Ralph has also been conducting a free refresher class on the TCI listserve and has saved all the class notes for future reference.

The second resource would be a free downloadable Army manual from the 1950's which covers the technology of the 302 phones and actually all telecommunications of the time period, including switchboards and automatic switching equipment.  That manual is available on Colin Chamber's web site www.oldphoneguy.com then choose the section called Big Books in the margin and then choose the Army Manual called Fundamentals of Telephony.

Both resources cover the theory, history and functionality of the phones and the various components used in phones and their properties.

Also, check out the links to these and other phone related books right here in this forum at this link.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=69.0

Happy Reading!

[twocvbloke]

Do you know where I can get the capacitor and what the specific description I should ask for? 

Just go to an electronics place and ask for a point five micro farad 200 (or more) volt capacitor...

Usually though you can get packs of capacitors off ebay for cheaper, always handy to have a stock of them for when you need them...

[gands-antiques]

Great...thanks a lot.   The .5 is for in line use with an existing sick capacitor...right?

What size should I get when the original capacitor is dead or has been removed?

Thanks,
Gary

Do you know where I can get the capacitor and what the specific description I should ask for? 

Just go to an electronics place and ask for a point five micro farad 200 (or more) volt capacitor...

Usually though you can get packs of capacitors off ebay for cheaper, always handy to have a stock of them for when you need them...

[twocvbloke]

Great...thanks a lot.   The .5 is for in line use with an existing sick capacitor...right?

What size should I get when the original capacitor is dead or has been removed?

Really, if the existing cap is suspected as faulty, it's best to disconnect it and use the replacement in it's place (I.E. wired to the points where the original goes), especially during testing, as if it's shorted out it could cause problems down the line...

For most phones, .5 is usually fine for ringing, and reduces load on your line too (meaning more phone capacity!!), but if you can, get one which is about the same as the one fitted, usually about 1 to 1.8 micro farads...

And I forgot to mention, make sure you ask for an AC capacitor (usually poly. capacitors, rather than electrolytic which are DC capacitors)...

[gands-antiques]

Thanks!!

I think I need some of the replacement capacitors. The phone I've been working on all day now passes the ringers on the test machine but they won't work when installed in the phone.  The only way I can get it to halfway work is to connect the ringer wires to L1 and L2 and then I have to push start the hammer. It still isn't right.

I checked ebay for the capacitors but I wasn't sure of what I was looking for.

Does any one know if Radio Shack has the replacement capacitors and if so, an idea of how much they cost?

Thanks,
Gary
--------------------------

Great...thanks a lot.   The .5 is for in line use with an existing sick capacitor...right?

What size should I get when the original capacitor is dead or has been removed?

Really, if the existing cap is suspected as faulty, it's best to disconnect it and use the replacement in it's place (I.E. wired to the points where the original goes), especially during testing, as if it's shorted out it could cause problems down the line...

For most phones, .5 is usually fine for ringing, and reduces load on your line too (meaning more phone capacity!!), but if you can, get one which is about the same as the one fitted, usually about 1 to 1.8 micro farads...

And I forgot to mention, make sure you ask for an AC capacitor (usually poly. capacitors, rather than electrolytic which are DC capacitors)...

[LarryInMichigan]

Thanks!!

I think I need some of the replacement capacitors. The phone I've been working on all day now passes the ringers on the test machine but they won't work when installed in the phone.  The only way I can get it to halfway work is to connect the ringer wires to L1 and L2 and then I have to push start the hammer. It still isn't right.

I checked ebay for the capacitors but I wasn't sure of what I was looking for.

Does any one know if Radio Shack has the replacement capacitors and if so, an idea of how much they cost?

Thanks,
Gary
--------------------------

Great...thanks a lot.   The .5 is for in line use with an existing sick capacitor...right?

What size should I get when the original capacitor is dead or has been removed?

Really, if the existing cap is suspected as faulty, it's best to disconnect it and use the replacement in it's place (I.E. wired to the points where the original goes), especially during testing, as if it's shorted out it could cause problems down the line...

For most phones, .5 is usually fine for ringing, and reduces load on your line too (meaning more phone capacity!!), but if you can, get one which is about the same as the one fitted, usually about 1 to 1.8 micro farads...

And I forgot to mention, make sure you ask for an AC capacitor (usually poly. capacitors, rather than electrolytic which are DC capacitors)...

Radio Shack used to sell .47 μF capacitors in packs of two for a couple of dollars, but the last time I went to buy some, they apparently no longer carried them.  The store clerk had no understanding what I was trying to find.

Larry

[gands-antiques]

Thanks Larry. I appreciate it.  Do you know of any other place where the capacitors can be purchased?


Thanks,
Gary