Hi everyone,
Cannot find (or no one knows) when AT&T will eventually stop servicing POTS, or worse-- get a letter in mail warning us, "We will cut the cord on such & such date. Sign up or else. We're still the phone company!" <cue in evil laugh>
That has me wondering if good idea to buy Dial-Gizmo thing now (figuring prices will go up as demand increases) or... wait and see because don't know if that too might end up being obsolete.
1.) Anyone know cut off date for POTS? Extensive searching hasn't revealed hard date.
2.) Fact or fiction: It's not just phones, but quite a few things would need to be 'modernized'-- POS terminals, traffic signals, fire alarms, home alarm systems, medical alert services, etc. This has already happened and I just haven't been paying attention?
3.) Photons through copper? Can they bend fiber optic > than maybe 20 degrees now? Wouldn't 45 or 90 degree angles still require copper? Fiber-optic is marketing hype, or they've really made advances in material science? Found a bit of dated info (2014) about "last mile" being copper, but nothing about how far they can run fiber-optics, or how flexible it is.
Bottom line:
Am sure I'm not the only one who wants to keep using the old rotaries for fun, and have a 2500 or similar on hand for emergencies.
What are your plans for when POTS gets the axe?
Well, there really is not much reason to keep POTS now, IMHO, but in the U.S. no one has set any deadlines for that, contrary to some other countries, such as Germany, where such announcements have been proclaimed. But the large telcos are shedding copper plant aggressively, it seems only the second tier providers still can make sufficient profit from that.
These Dialgizmo's really have a poor reputation for reliability. I wouldn't buy a single one.
For collectors there are many options to run antique rotary phones. Untold numbers of small PBX systems are discarded routinely.
I work for a large school district. I maintain alarm systems. Most upgrades to alarm dialers was done a few years ago. VOIP compression would scramble alarm signals, causing false dispatches.
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NFPA 72A "Fire Alarm" code has done away with the landline, they want you to use internet or cellular. Currently there isn't a code pertaining to network reliability. However code says to use the network and don't worry about backup (Bad Idea). Our network goes out on occasion.
Our current attitude is to use cellular upgrades where we have line problems and cell primary on the new installations. The cell site monitoring cost is the same as land line (that is including cell service).
Buy a Panasonic 616 and don't worry about it.
JMO,
Jim S.
"The last mile" of copper refers to the last link to the home from the distribution point. This is the most expensive run.the large main runs can be averaged over all the subscribers. That last mile is high cost for little or no reward to the provider.
Looks like I'll be needing to do some homework. Thanks for warning about DialGizmo. Meyer did a review of them, but admitted his results were far from conclusive.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/telephony-101/07b%20TCI%20Article%20on%20Pulse-toTone%20Converters.pdf (http://www.telephonecollectors.info/telephony-101/07b%20TCI%20Article%20on%20Pulse-toTone%20Converters.pdf)
Panasonic 616 seems to be out of stock at amazon and its description uses terms not familiar with. (Homework time...)
PBX also sounds like a real challenge from a technical standpoint. Perhaps others with experience in data-comm can sort through some of the lingo in the following blog.
https://connectedworld.com/rest-in-peace-pots/ (https://connectedworld.com/rest-in-peace-pots/)
At least thinking about it & planning to make provisions. : )
Quote from: Slal on November 23, 2016, 06:29:38 PM
Panasonic 616 seems to be out of stock at amazon and its description uses terms not familiar with. (Homework time...)
There are a few on eBay right now (they come and go in various condition) or if you want a refurbished unit with a 90 day warranty, check out this distributor. A bit high compared to eBay but it is refurbished with a warranty.
http://www.pcliquidations.com/p4430-panasonic-616-easa-phone
The Amazon units were also used and refurbished.
Search the forum for "panasonic 616" and you will find a lot of information about them.
Quote from: TelePlay on November 23, 2016, 06:48:40 PM
There are a few on eBay right now (they come and go in various condition) or if you want a refurbished unit with a 90 day warranty, check out this distributor. A bit high compared to eBay but it is refurbished with a warranty.
http://www.pcliquidations.com/p4430-panasonic-616-easa-phone
The Amazon units were also used and refurbished.
Search the forum for "panasonic 616" and you will find a lot of information about them.
Thanks. Link bookmarked, and a quick peek at search results looks like some serious homework.
Hopefully if we ever do get a 'final notice' letter from AT&T regarding POTS I'll be much more knowledgeable about it then.
If you do get a Panasonic 616 or a 308, the amount of homework to do is pretty minimal. They are literally plug and play and the standard program without any modifications is usually adequate. The input to the phone line uses standard modular RJ-11 connectors, and the phones that plug into the extension ports also use RJ-11 connectors. While best mounted on a wall in some out of the way place, you could get by with just setting it on the floor leaning against a wall as long as it has enough ventilation to keep it from getting hot. They really don't normally get hot, but I would imagine if the vents in the side were blocked, they could overheat.
If you do want to customize the programming, then you will have to buy one that comes with at least one digital extension phone. Often the 616 or 308 PBX's are sold with at least one such phone. Other than that a 308 will take 3 input lines and can have 8 extensions. A 616, on the other hand will take 6 input lines and can handle 16 extensions.
Standard rotary or DTMF phones can be connected to any extension port. You can dial directly from one extension to another by simply dialing the extension number. To access an outside line, you dial 9 and when you get the external dial tone, dial as normal. Pulse dialing will be converted to DTMF for dialing out.
Obviously, if you only have one phone line then a 616 will only have one active outside line. However, if you get a MagicJack or some other form of digital phone line (C*Net for example), you can have more "outside" lines.
The neat things about the Panasonic 308's and 616's is that they are simple, compact and allow you to connect, demonstrate and even test phones.
Also, you asked about what the rest of us are doing about POTS going away. Fact is, I cut the cord with POTS about 12 years ago when I went to Vonage. I am now using the VoIP provided by my cable company. I am fortunate in that my cable VoIP supports pulse dialing!
I suppose the cable company could change it so the ATA would not support pulse, but it doesn't worry me. In fact, I am often tempted to ditch it anyway to save money. I rarely take or make a call on my "land line" any way. Most calls I make are on my cell phone these days. I get way more calls from people wanting to sell me things, callers trying to spoof IRS threats, and political calls than I ever get calls from friends or family on that phone number. So, if that goes away, I would actually be happier.
I do have a Panasonic 616, which is great for demonstrating old telephony. If I did ditch the cable VoIP line, I might replace it with MagicJack. I also have C*Net so I can still get dial tone from that.
C*Net is a VoIP network for us phone collectors. It is generally free. Free in terms of use, but connecting either requires a VoIP ATA (modem) or configuring an old computer with VoIP cards. I went the route of an inexpensive ATA supplied by a fellow phone collector. If you want to know more about C*Net, go to the ckts.info website.
I totally agree with what has been said here. 95% of my phone use is over cel. I do have a Majic jack run through a 616. I have it ran to various rooms and outside to the pool deck as well. This winter I will set up a "working" display, I can rotate different phones through, using my 308 displaying any number of working phones, since you can hook up as many as four phones per line.
These Panasonic units can be bought cheap if you keep your eye on EBAY. I purchased mine for about $30 each plus shipping.
It is really the way to go!
Quote from: Pourme on November 24, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
. This winter I will set up a "working" display, I can rotate different phones through, using my 308 displaying any number of working phones, since you can hook up as many as four phones per line.
I'm not sure it is designed to ring that many phones simultaneously per extension port, at least on an incoming trunk (outside line) call.
On a 616, the limit is "6 standard phones per ringing group." I assume by "ringing group" they mean extensions that ring at the same time, for example, Ext. 11, 15, 19 and 23.
Quote from: poplar1 on November 24, 2016, 10:19:17 AM
I'm not sure it is designed to ring that many phones simultaneously per extension port, at least on an incoming trunk (outside line) call.
On a 616, the limit is "6 standard phones per ringing group." I assume by "ringing group" they mean extensions that ring at the same time, for example, Ext. 11, 15, 19 and 23.
I haven't wired multiple sets per line as yet but I have read several times on this forum that you can have up to four sets per line. I think it has to do with the ability of the PBX to power the ringers?
I am relatively new at this my self....
I have always been told 4 per port.
The one Teleplay posted (Version 3) says "Three parallel telephones can be connected to each extension".
Jim S.
Quote from: Pourme on November 24, 2016, 12:01:04 PM
I haven't wired multiple sets per line as yet but I have read several times on this forum that you can have up to four sets per line. I think it has to do with the ability of the PBX to power the ringers?
I am relatively new at this my self....
What I recall without pulling out the manual, is that it is three sets per line, but that is limited by the maximum number of permissible sets per ring group. So, if you only have 3 or 4 phones in the entire ring group, than you can put them on one port. But beyond that, you cannot have more than a certain maximum in the group. I also recall it was six per group, as Poplar1 stated.
The ring groups are cadenced so that ringing is continuously distributed over time, so when phones are connected to multiple ring groups, you get constant ringing. It is a remarkable event, sure to wake up all in the neighborhood. This is definitely not designed for having all phones in one room. Beware!
You will get to appreciate a switch on each phone to turn off the ringers.
My understanding is taht it's all to do with the REN rating of the ringers. A phone can have a value of anything up to 4 REN. Each estension on the PBX can power any number of phones provided the total REN value of those phones doesn't exceed 4.
I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here in the UK every extension on most PBXs has to terminate in a master socket (ie with a capacitor in it).
It's a bit of a minefield when converting foreign phones to the UK system though.
Quote from: andy1702 on November 24, 2016, 12:43:10 PM
My understanding is taht it's all to do with the REN rating of the ringers. A phone can have a value of anything up to 4 REN. Each estension on the PBX can power any number of phones provided the total REN value of those phones doesn't exceed 4.
I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here in the UK every extension on most PBXs has to terminate in a master socket (ie with a capacitor in it).
It's a bit of a minefield when converting foreign phones to the UK system though.
Certainly. When we talk about the count of phones in these cases, we assume a standard Bell 500-type set, which was the initial standard for 1 REN.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 24, 2016, 12:33:49 AM
Fact is, I cut the cord with POTS about 12 years ago when I went to Vonage. I am now using the VoIP provided by my cable company. I am fortunate in that my cable VoIP supports pulse dialing!
I suppose the cable company could change it so the ATA would not support pulse, but it doesn't worry me. In fact, I am often tempted to ditch it anyway to save money. I rarely take or make a call on my "land line" any way. Most calls I make are on my cell phone these days. I get way more calls from people wanting to sell me things, callers trying to spoof IRS threats, and political calls than I ever get calls from friends or family on that phone number. So, if that goes away, I would actually be happier.
C*Net is a VoIP network for us phone collectors. It is generally free. Free in terms of use, but connecting either requires a VoIP ATA (modem) or configuring an old computer with VoIP cards. I went the route of an inexpensive ATA supplied by a fellow phone collector. If you want to know more about C*Net, go to the ckts.info website.
G series handset one of the best ergonomic designs of 20th century imo. Soon as I got reacquainted with it, preferable to my cordless-- much less talking into a 6S that's only about 14cm. Discovered I do tend to pace though, so long line cords for rotaries & a 2500. ; )
No plans to give up POTS (still want it for emergencies) but quite true about robo calls & spoofing!
That leads to first question about home PBX.
1.) Possible to have some sort of menu? Curious if that might be a way to cut down on number of robo calls & phishing.
"You have reached our landline. Press one if you're a human who wants to speak with us!" Wondering if computer would simply dial next number when it cannot get through to answering machine or whatever variable:
'target stupid enough to choose variable OptOut - call again at exact same time tomorrow, or at dinner time...'I'd seen C*Net on member sigs, so at least I know what it is now. Nice to know we have a community as I do a bit of planning.
Definitely something to check out. : )
Quote from: Pourme on November 24, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
I totally agree with what has been said here. 95% of my phone use is over cell. I do have a Majic jack run through a 616. I have it ran to various rooms and outside to the pool deck as well. This winter I will set up a "working" display, I can rotate different phones through, using my 308 displaying any number of working phones, since you can hook up as many as four phones per line.
These Panasonic units can be bought cheap if you keep your eye on EBAY. I purchased mine for about $30 each plus shipping.
It is really the way to go!
Guess that's what makes contingency planning so difficult. No way to set up or test unless go to VOIP if I understand correctly.
This brings up second question: UPS. Cell chargers require electricity of course, and cable modem / wifi needs a battery.
2.) Panasonic, or other devices get their power through phone jack(s) in modem / wi-fi box, or require their own battery if lights go out?
I probably have a dry sense of humor, but the idea of a dozen of phones all ringing at the same time strikes me as funny. Probably loud enough to wake the dead! : 0 !
Be pretty cool to have different ring series for different locations though. For example, lets say I have a 2554 near kitchen, a 500 in the living room, and a 501 (d) in the office.
3.) Set them up to ring differently like what I read about party lines, or they'd ring the same-- just different 'extensions?'
As you can tell, I know absolutely nothing about PBXs, but I'm curious about them now. : )
Thanks for reading.
The 308's and 616's are pretty dumb machines. No capability for screening or menus. They are a product from the 1980's.
They (616) ring in ringing groups of 4 so all the phones won't ring at the exact same time, but they go from group 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 in a round sort of arrangement. If you have a lot of phones connected, believe me it will drive you/ and or your family nuts!
You could connect the PBX to a UPS, and you would get however much backup the UPS is capable of providing. However, know that on the 616, outside lines 1-6 get automatically connected directly to extensions 11-16, where you can make calls as if they were connected to the outside world. If you only have one line, it will get connected to extension 11. The same goes for the 308, but with fewer lines.
I know the G handset and the AE equivalent are by far better and the land line network all produce a much better audio. Believe me! I have a hearing loss and the cell phones are pretty crappy. But still, I have gone to using the cell phones because it is handy, and I can text and send email from it. It's a trade-off.
Yes, have gone to an iPad & seldom use laptop anymore except to print. Cell phones irritating because they're always going off, but no contest on convenience.
Too bad about screening, but at least I know a little more about my options.
That's why I like checking in on occasion. Figured if anyone knew how to keep the old ones in service-- be the 'veterans' here at CRPF.
Thanks!