51-500 arrived today, need help on dial.

[Dan/Panther]

The 8-51-500 I won the other day on ebay came today. It was in rough shape but like I thought it cleaned up nicely.
I was cleaning the dial when the center stop and spring came off. I cleaned and lubed the dial and after several attempts I was able to get the dial back together, but it still seems slow. The finger wheel was bent, so I suspect the shaft for the dial may be bent. How many turn does it take to preload the dial return spring ?  I turned it once and it was way slow, two turns it seems right, but about 1-1/2 seconds to cycle which is still slow, three turns way too tight and the spring pops out of it's recess, there are 4 recesses, and none looked worn so after experiemneting I think I have it right, but baring a bent shaft I might NOT have it right Can someone tell me what recess to put the spring in and how many turns to preload. Basically a step by step to insure I have it right.
Thanks
D/P

Here are some photos of when I got it and a quick clean up.
Note the dial says 8-51 & 7A with a roman numeral 1, and no color code. The phone is a501, with a tube, the network has broken loose fromm the base but is not damaged.

[Dennis Markham]

Dan, it looks like a nice phone.  You replaced the handset cord too?  I noticed on the dirty version it has the tapered end.  Or did you just shove it inside a bit more?  I wind the springs 2 turns.  I'm not sure what you mean about the recesses.  Where are these recesses?

[Dan]

I believe your 501 T does not have the equalizer, but has the 425A network. Is this correct?

[Dan/Panther]

Dennis;
The flange that you preload 2 turns has the large sping attached to it, and then is lowered into a cup that the spring sets in, at the bottom of that cup is 4 indents any one of which the bottom of the spring can fit into. Each one will preset the spring by 1/4 turn tighter as you work your way around. I would show a photo, but that would necessitate removing the entire mechanism.
As far as the handset it was a later plastic one, and I replaced it with a bakelite one. Eveything else from line cord the the handset is original dates.
What is the deal with the Roman numeral 1, and no color code ?

As far as the network, it looks like the 425, but is wired differently. It doesn't have a number designation on it.
The dial face also isn't like normal. It has what appears to be a solid background with white inlaid numbers that are not all the way through the face. 
D/P

[Dennis Markham]

Dan it has been a while since I worked on a 7A.  I don't remember there being 4 choices for the spring to seat in the dial frame.  I would probably use one that would give the closest to two full turns of the spring.  I do recall once while working on the 7A dial that once I removed the finger wheel nut the shaft flew out past my face.  Not like the later 7C or 7D that was pressed into the dial hub (the one with the pointed end on it that fits under the dial stop).  One has to be careful when working on the 7A for that reason.  I have also worked on a 7A where that did not happen too.  I do not know what the large Roman numeral I means.  I have a couple of the 7A dials and they too do not have the color code.

The early dial bezel had an overlay rather than the sandwiched plastic of the later bezels.  If yous is one of those often the letters/numbers are little more yellowed.  You wouldn't want to sand on one because you would ruin the numbers/letters.

[McHeath]

My 12/51 WE 500 has the same thinner lettering and numbers on the dial bezel as your 8/51 does.  Mine is the traditional injection molded style while you have the original type, pretty cool find I think.  (my bezel was broken in shipment, sadly) 

Does it work?

These really early phones are very interesting, especially as yours appears to have been in service far past it's expected life span.  I think you did good here.

[rp2813]

Yeah, in the pre-cleaning shot the number plate looks to be the early style with the characters appearing to be a bit yellowed.  That's how mine is, and that's what other early phones I've seen here on the forum look.  Almost like the numbers and letters would glow if you turned the lights off--which would have been a cool feature.

It's the after-cleaning shots that trip me up.  In those, the characters have the look of those on a later dial.  However, the shot of the dial mechanism doesn't have the characteristic perforated white backing of later 500's so I'm guessing you've got the original style there Dan, and those numbers and letters are painted on, then covered over with a clear plastic bezel.

What makes the 501's different from the 500's? 

Great find.

Ralph

[Dan/Panther]

The 501, is the Party line version. If I understand correctly.
This is the second 500 series from the early 50's i've gotten that turned out to be a 501 instead of a 500, but hesitating to ask public questions about the listing, I assume it's a 500, I still like the phones but, wish they were straight 500's. One other 500 I got is an almost new condition '54, turns out to be a Signal Corp model, however Richard Marsh told me he would rather have the Signal Corp model than the non equivalent.
D/P

[foots]

I didn't know that there was a Signal Corp model of the 500 - by any chance, do you have any pictures Dan?

[rp2813]

Dan posted pix of the Signal Corps phone in another thread IIRC, but I don't rember its title.  You might be able to do a search and find it that way.  As I recall it was a nice looking phone in great shape, and of course it was climatized/weatherized or whatever so I presume it will remain in great shape for many decades to come.

Ralph

[Dan/Panther]

Foots;
Here is a photo of the Signal Corp 500 dated 1954, pretty much as I received it, and in everyday use.
D/P

[foots]

Very nice, Dan. Is that handset cord the original? Both my Connecticut Electric and my North Electric signal Corps phones have a very thick coiled rubber(?) handset cords. Is yours the same?
Btw, speaking of daily use - I've just put your Starlite phone to work.

[Dan/Panther]

Foots, IIRC, I think it is the original cord, the next time I open it up, I will check, and correct myself if i'm wrong.
D/P
BTW, Glad you liked the phone.