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NECo 702B Q1A 1978 model WONT RING!

Started by AE_Collector, March 21, 2018, 11:59:08 PM

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AE_Collector

Okay I am tired of fighting with this. I never work on Never WE phones so have little understanding of them. I can't seem t9 find the ideal wiring diagram for it. So I'm asking for help.

All works except the Ringer. Nothing, not even a feeble attempt. I have the Ringer Black on L1 with the green line cord and Ringer Red on K. Nothing. The Ringer Slate and Slate-Red were in terminals but I disconnected them in case they were killing it.

So I disconnected the Ringer red and black, connected them to a line cord with a .47 uf cap in series and...it works. So presumablybthere is a cap on the network with one side connected to K and either it is bad or maybe my hook switch leads have been messed with, maybe for a 1A2 install?

The black and yellow set cord leads aren't going to the lamp. The yellow is on a terminal with a slate-yellow that heads to the network area of the board and looks to be labelled M.

Hope these pictures help.

Thanks.....Terry

AE_Collector

Just found another similar NECo to compare to but it is TT rather than Rotary so lots of wires in different places though the Ringer is hooked the same way. Was going to say a NECo Princess but then wondered did NECo stick with Contessa to the end or did they eventually become Princess as well?

Terry

Babybearjs

the best thing is to go to the TCI Library. I archive everything so I have it for reference.... anyway, I'm sure the NE princess is wired identical to the WE princess, so make sure the ringer wires are as follows... the gray and the gray-red should be attached to the A and K terminals (the capacitor) and the red and black go to L1 and L2... if it still won't ring but its trying to, adjust the bias spring... AE ringers are easier to trace because they have the cap inline with the black wire..(or red....) but the schematic for the princess phone shouldn't vary too much from the US version....   
John

markosjal

I would suspect that the rnger is switched through the hookswitch and may have a dirty or bad contact! You can always just bypass the hookswitch for the bell if that is the case.

Mark
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

AE_Collector

#4
Yes the Ringer is through the hook switch then goes through the cap and arrives at K. Did some looking at the hook contacts and they seemed okay. Very strange.

This network is all on the board, not like the old ones as it is a fairly recent NECo Phone thus it isn't very easy to figure out what terminal some of the spade leads coming directly off the board are. But the ringer works with my cap.

Oh and I couldn't find anything quite like this under NECo on the TCI library.

Terry

markosjal

That board is like what I see a lot of in Mexico on Indetel phones. Do some continuity tests with an ohm meter. I have seen solder connections fail especially near heavy components.

There is probably "A" and "K" terminals and see if you can at least match up hookswitch wire colors with a similar model and do all the continuity tests and see where it is breaking. Since it looks newer, I doubt it is divided ringing.
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

poplar1

Quote from: Babybearjs on March 22, 2018, 01:22:28 AM
... anyway, I'm sure the NE princess is wired identical to the WE princess, so make sure the ringer wires are as follows... the gray and the gray-red should be attached to the A and K terminals (the capacitor) and the red and black go to L1 and L2...

You must be thinking of a C4A ringer in the 500/554. The Princess and Trimline ringers are NOT wired the same way as the 500 ringers! In the PRN and TML, the slate and slate-red ringer wires are not used except for certain party lines (tip party ID for correct billing). Connecting red and black of these ringers to L2 and L1 will trip ring and busy out the line.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Key2871

You may have a bad capacitor, try the ringer off of a different known working ringing set. If it works, you know that you have a bad cap.
KEN

poplar1

#8
Are the terminals placed L2 -  L1 -  A? If so, then in the 2nd photo, it looks like you have the black ringer wire on A, rather than the slate line switch wire.

Also, the ringing  capacitor in the QNB17A network goes to M and K on the network. So you have to place a jumper (S-Y) from A to M. The slate line switch wire connects to A. The red ringer wire connects to K.

502-710-433CAB
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Ktownphoneco

If it's any help Terry, here's a schematic for the set.    In "jpeg" and "pdf".

Jeff Lamb

AE_Collector

Ahh great, lots of things to check! It is going to be later today before I can get back at it, possibly much later or even tomorrow. Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone and thanks for the schematics Jeff. I couldn't find schematics for this model.

Will get back to you all with what I find.

Terry

RotoTech99

#11
In my NE Princess, I put the red ringer lead at K, and the black ringer lead at L1...I find that the old ringer wiring will not always work without having the yellow ground lead connected to the ringer circuit.

But if you connect the ringer as suggested above, that should cause it to ring.

BTW: Don't give up on that Princess; yes its different than WE's version, but once you get the ringer figured out, it will make a sweet phone for a bedroom, or on a table by your favorite chair.

Rototech99

AE_Collector

Had my schedules mixed up, I did have time this afternoon to get at it again and....Good News, It Works now.

Poplar1 mentioned the slate-yellow jumper for the ringing capacitor which (no pun intended)...rang a bell with me because I had noticed a wire of that colour connected to the yellow set cord lead. Sure enough that lead comes directly off this main board with a letter "M" beside it....Bingo! Picture below...I tried to draw a blue circle around the slate-yellow lead that solders directly to the board with the upside down M beside it.

Then with the wiring diagram that Jeff included I finally had a schematic that looked like this phone. So, moved the slate-yellow lead off the yellow set cord lead and to A right beside the L1 & L2 connections and it's a done deal!

I want to thank Everyone for their input on this. I was very happy to resolve it without it being a major problem. It was nice to have so many helpful suggestions when I ran up against this problem in a phone that I am quite unfamiliar with.

Terry

Key2871

Sounds like the yellow cord lead was grounded originally.
Well glad you got it working.
KEN

markosjal

Quote from: markosjal on March 22, 2018, 02:22:26 AM
..... Since it looks newer, I doubt it is divided ringing.

I was SOOOO wrong!
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish