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"Phone Wiring Problem"

Started by mmd, February 10, 2011, 01:08:43 AM

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mmd

My Vonage "V-Portal" is begining to have a nasty problem with my WE302.  Every once in a while after making a call or receiving a call, about a minute after hanging up, the V-Portal flashes "Phone wiring problem, please unplug all phones." and when I do that it reboots..  It's not doing it on ANY other phone, just the WE302.  But it didn't used to do this.

I contacted Vonage and they told me it can do this if the box can't determine if the phone is on the hook or off the hook..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

LarryInMichigan

I would check to make sure that no wires are touching inside the phone and that the hook switch contacts clean are separating properly when the handset is in the cradle.  Another possible cause of the problem would be a leaky ringer capacitor.  Try disconnecting the ringer and see if the problem goes away.

Larry

mmd

Quote from: LarryInMichigan on February 10, 2011, 08:12:39 AM
I would check to make sure that no wires are touching inside the phone and that the hook switch contacts clean are separating properly when the handset is in the cradle.  Another possible cause of the problem would be a leaky ringer capacitor.  Try disconnecting the ringer and see if the problem goes away.

Larry
Doesn't look like any wires are touching.  Tried disconnecting the ringer, so far so good..  Hook switch is clean..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

Quote from: mmd on February 10, 2011, 01:08:43 AM
My Vonage "V-Portal" is begining to have a nasty problem with my WE302.  Every once in a while after making a call or receiving a call, about a minute after hanging up, the V-Portal flashes "Phone wiring problem, please unplug all phones." and when I do that it reboots..  It's not doing it on ANY other phone, just the WE302.  But it didn't used to do this.

I contacted Vonage and they told me it can do this if the box can't determine if the phone is on the hook or off the hook..

My guess is that the cord to your 302 is a 4-wire cord, which contains a yellow and black lead.  Additionally, you probably have the yellow and black lead either wired together inside the phone or wired to one of the red or green wires.  Disconnect both the yellow and the black wires and either snip off the spade tips so they cannot be used, or tape the spade tips with black electrical tape and set them aside in the phone without being connected.

Many of the analog terminal adaptesr (ATA's) use the 2nd pair of wires (yellow and black) for a 2nd line.  Shorting them out will definitely cause a problem.
-Bill G

mmd

Hmm, the wires are there in the plug and the cord, but are cut in the phone, but definitely aren't shorting to anything, they are cut flush to the cloth...
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

Quote from: mmd on February 10, 2011, 12:41:26 PM
Hmm, the wires are there in the plug and the cord, but are cut in the phone, but definitely aren't shorting to anything, they are cut flush to the cloth...

OK, well then we eliminated that problem.  I wonder if you are getting some current leakage through the ringer capacitor.  But before assuming leakage, check for proper ringer wiring.

Is your ringer wired so that the red ringer wire is connected to L1 on the induction coil, the black ringer wire to the K terminal, and for the capacitor for the ringer, the yellow is usually connected to L2/Y on the induction coil and the slate is connected to K along with the black ringer wire.

See if that is the case.  If not, please indicate how the ringer is wired.
-Bill G

mmd

Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

dsk

What is the purpose of the diode next to the ringer?

dsk

Phonesrfun

The picture hides some of the wiring routint, but it looks like there may be some issues with the wiring.

d_s_k:  The diode is completely foreign to the phone and should not be there, but it looks from the picture (I can't really tell) that there are no wires going to it, so I am assuming it is not causing a problem.

mmd:  We are going to need to either get more pictures and/or go into a dialog about which wires are connected where.

You can upload pictures directly into a post, and you don't need the external links if you wish.  Just click on "Additional Options" at the bottom of a post and it will give you the option to post a picture or some other file, and will give you a browse button to select its path.
-Bill G

mmd

The diode is not connected, I placed it there just to not forget it when I put the rotatone back in my WE500..  (yea, silly I put it in the 305, but my 500 doesn't have a termination block to hold these things)..

I'll take it apart sometime tonight, if I get out of work early..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

#10
At work, I have a bigger monitor than I have at home.  When I look at your picture with this monitor, I don't see anything that stands out as a wiring issue, which might still leave the issue of a leaky capacitor in the ringer circuit.

The ringer has two wires; a red and a black.  The red wire is connected to L1 on the inductor, and the black is connected to a teminal with the slate colored wire from the capacitor.  The yellow capacitor wire is connected to L2/Y on the induction coil.  This is how it should be.

The ringer coils and the capacitor are wired in series, and then bridged across the line, L1 and L2.

The purpose of the capacitor is to keep DC from completing a DC path through the ringer coils, but allow the AC ringing current to ring the bell.  If the capacior leaks, then your Vonage ATA might be sensing that.  This could cause your ATA to report a busy line when it is not, and therefore you would miss some calls.

Try disconnecting the ringer and see if the fault indication goes away.  The easiest way to disconnect the ringer is probably to remove the red ringer wire from the L1 terminal on the induction coil.

If that makes the fault go away, you probably have a defective ringer capacior which would need to be replaced.

So, try disconnecting the ringer and lets see if the problem goes away, then we can discuss the next step.

-Bill G

mmd

Ringer has been unhooked and it hasn't complained since..

But it does then complain with both a WE302 and my cordless attached (so i can know when it rings)..  So that's odd now, with WE302 and disabled ringer, no more issues, but with a 2nd phone it's back to complaining..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

That is very strange.  Are you using one of those splitters that you plug into a single RJ-11 jack and then plug 2 phones into that, or are you plugging the phones into separate jacks in the house?

Do you have your Vonage router connected to feed into the house wiring so that you can use any phone in the house as normal?  If so, did you disconnect your house wiring from the telco line at the box outside the house?

When the ATA complains, does it effect anything, or is it just complaining?

Many, many possibilities to track down.
-Bill G

mmd

It's on one of those splitters..

When it complains, if I lift the handset, it's a recorded voice saying that the line is disabled and that I need to purchase a line, lol..

Now if I put on multiple cordless or modern wired phones, no complaints from the box at all, it's happy..

I don't think there should be any problem, as long as the WE302 ringer is disabled, I don't see what would be drawing any current to confuse the vonage box..
Brandon
Western Electric 302, 500

Phonesrfun

The Vonage ATA output jack has the capability for two lines.  There are two pairs of wires; one for each line.  Pair #1 are the center two wires, and pair #2 are the outer two wires.  They did this so that if you wanted to buy a second line or a fax line, you can do this without a second ATA.

In a standard line cord, red and green are connected to the inner pair #1, and yellow and black are connected to the outer pair #2.  Standard house wiring is that the blue/white pair is pair #1, and the orange/white pair is pair #2

Somehow, by using the splitter, you must be connecting one or the other phones to the outer two pair, or crossing over and connecting pair #2 to pair #1.

Not all splitters are the same.  Some splitters are designed to split one for one, and only split pair #1 into two separate connections.  Other splitters are designed to plug into a two-line plug and put pair #1 on one of the outputs, and pair #2 on the other.  You may have one of the second kind of splitters.

So, I would focus on the splitter or how the jacks and the wiring are connected to the ATA, and if you are back-feeding into your house wiring, make sure that none of the pair 2 wires are coming into contact with any of the pair 1 wires.  I would also make sure that the old telco line you are no longer using is disconected from your inside house wiring, unless you are using a telco-provided DSL for your internet connection.  If you are using DSL, that would be another topic entirely.
-Bill G