Author Topic: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick  (Read 6701 times)

Offline 1TIMESONE1

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I recently obtained a 1908 Kellogg candlestick and Western Electric ringer box with a rotary dial in the center.  It was purchased off ebay and guaranteed 100%. The unit has several issues I was hoping to solve through your forums.
 
1.) During shipping a white wire in the cord from the handset came off the 425E wiring block and I got to figure where it goes (if it was even suppose to be connected). Local landline is ATT and they stated to me the system can support rotary. 
 
2.) The ringer works when the landline is called but no dial tone from the earpiece.
 
3.) A second line goes to the wall that had 2 alligator clips attached to the end.  The wire comes from the ringer box, one end comes from the handset two wire cable and the other from the coil wire.
 
So you can see that I am eager to figure this out.. THANK YOU


Offline G-Man

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 04:49:24 AM »
I recently obtained a 1908 Kellogg candlestick and Western Electric ringer box with a rotary dial in the center.  It was purchased off ebay and guaranteed 100%. The unit has several issues I was hoping to solve through your forums.
 
1.) During shipping a white wire in the cord from the handset came off the 425E wiring block and I got to figure where it goes (if it was even suppose to be connected). Local landline is ATT and they stated to me the system can support rotary. 
 
2.) The ringer works when the landline is called but no dial tone from the earpiece.
 
3.) A second line goes to the wall that had 2 alligator clips attached to the end.  The wire comes from the ringer box, one end comes from the handset two wire cable and the other from the coil wire.
 
So you can see that I am eager to figure this out.. THANK YOU



Wow, this is a real hack. You should demand a partial refund from the seller for the lack of documentation and extremely poor workmanship.

That said, I am taking a wild guess from the incomplete description that your are referring to the candlestick when you mention handset.

 And I suspect the coil you mentioned is a solenoid used to activate the hookswitch. If so, it probably needs a 12-volt source in order to operate when the receiver is lifted. That is most likely where the clips should be attached.

Perhaps this may give others a clue as to help you further. Sorry I could not be of further assistance.


Offline 1TIMESONE1

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 07:05:22 AM »
I recently obtained a 1908 Kellogg candlestick and Western Electric ringer box with a rotary dial in the center.  It was purchased off ebay and guaranteed 100%. The unit has several issues I was hoping to solve through your forums.
 
1.) During shipping a white wire in the cord from the handset came off the 425E wiring block and I got to figure where it goes (if it was even suppose to be connected). Local landline is ATT and they stated to me the system can support rotary. 
 
2.) The ringer works when the landline is called but no dial tone from the earpiece.
 
3.) A second line goes to the wall that had 2 alligator clips attached to the end.  The wire comes from the ringer box, one end comes from the handset two wire cable and the other from the coil wire.
 
So you can see that I am eager to figure this out.. THANK YOU



Wow, this is a real hack. You should demand a partial refund from the seller for the lack of documentation and extremely poor workmanship.

That said, I am taking a wild guess from the incomplete description that your are referring to the candlestick when you mention handset.

 And I suspect the coil you mentioned is a solenoid used to activate the hookswitch. If so, it probably needs a 12-volt source in order to operate when the receiver is lifted. That is most likely where the clips should be attached.

Perhaps this may give others a clue as to help you further. Sorry I could not be of further assistance.




As my first attempt, thanks for the 12volt power suggestion.  Now just got to find a source to use.  From review of the 500 wiring, the loose white wire from the handset, looks like it belonged on terminal marked GN.  The other 3 wires look to be on the correct terminals.

Online wds

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 08:53:13 AM »
Welcome to the forum!  Can you post some better pictures of the alleged "ringer box"?  Shouldn't need a 12 volt power source - the phone line should do it just fine.  I'm not sure how one wires a sidetone candlestick to a anti sidetone 500 variant ringer box.  My first suggestion would be to get rid of the "ringer box" and hook the c/s to a proper subset.  But maybe some more pictures would help.
Dave

Offline dpaynter1066

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 09:21:31 AM »
my random Guess is that the candlestick is wired  as a receiver/ transmitter   handset , which is why you need the extra solenoid hookswitch.    The candlestick hookswitch is used for controlling the solenoid.  

 two wires to connect the solenoid, and  3 wires for transmitter/receiver/common from the Candlestick to the subset. possibly 4 individual if not using a common wire

So it should hook up exactly as a rotary 500 handset ( ignoring the solenoid control wires).    two 6 volt lantern batteries from radio shack should run the solenoid OK if it takes12 volt.

I wouldnt try to run the solenoid off the telco lines, that would be illegal, draw too much current and also throw a nasty inductive spike onto the telco lines when it switches.  But I do agree that it would be better to just wire it as it was intended to be and give up the rotary dial.  That way you wouldnt have to futz with the large box in the way taking up space better left for beer bottles and having to be feeding it batteries all the time.

Online wds

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 09:59:24 AM »
There are wiring diagrams on this forum that should help with the wiring problem  Attached is a 500 wiring diagram from another post that should help.  Receiver to R, GN and Transmitter to R, BK.  I guess I'm not understanding the purpose of the solenoid if this phone is going to be used on a standard phone line.  I would remove the solenoid and wire it correctly.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 10:06:47 AM by wds »
Dave

Offline 1TIMESONE1

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 12:32:33 PM »
There are wiring diagrams on this forum that should help with the wiring problem  Attached is a 500 wiring diagram from another post that should help.  Receiver to R, GN and Transmitter to R, BK.  I guess I'm not understanding the purpose of the solenoid if this phone is going to be used on a standard phone line.  I would remove the solenoid and wire it correctly.  Good luck!
There are wiring diagrams on this forum that should help with the wiring problem  Attached is a 500 wiring diagram from another post that should help.  Receiver to R, GN and Transmitter to R, BK.  I guess I'm not understanding the purpose of the solenoid if this phone is going to be used on a standard phone line.  I would remove the solenoid and wire it correctly.  Good luck!

Wow, connecting the loose white wire from the candlestick to the GN on the diagram and a 2amp trickle battery charger to the clips, you can hear the relay engage.  The Kellogg and the modified western ringer box now work like a normal phone.  Disconnecting the 2amp charger and trying to power off the incoming line with the clips does not make the relay engage.  I attached close up view of the 425E in case there is a way to wire it, so that the line power will work, thanks very much at least it is working, now the decision is to whether resell or mount as intended.

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2012, 12:47:49 PM »
Just out of curiosity, it wouldn't happen to be this setup would it?:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6196.0

Looks very alike to me... ???

Offline 1TIMESONE1

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 12:54:44 PM »
Just out of curiosity, it wouldn't happen to be this setup would it?:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6196.0

Looks very alike to me... ???

Dam same and I was the buyer for $132..  new kitchen in my home, and had extra wood left from cabinets.. I was going to make a wall mount for the two pieces so that there was somewhere to write under the phone and mount it in the kitchen, still may.. thanks

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2012, 12:56:59 PM »
Ah, so the croc. clips aren't for ringing voltage across the eyebrows... :D

It's a pretty weird creation, that's for sure, and I'm sure many here would want to see more pics of how it's been built, I'm certainly curious about it myself... ;D

Offline dsk

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 03:28:00 PM »
A little bit more info, and we will find a way to make the candlestick working.
Some picture of the wires in the candlestick with the bottom plate removed.

With all the expertise in this forum, it seems like the impossible is solved within some time, miracles takes a  little bit more time.  ;)

Ususally a candlestick would not work with a network like yours, but if the cord to the candlestick has 5 wires it is easy to solve. With only 3 as usual, we have to figure out something.

dsk

Offline 1TIMESONE1

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 05:18:18 PM »
A little bit more info, and we will find a way to make the candlestick working.
Some picture of the wires in the candlestick with the bottom plate removed.

With all the expertise in this forum, it seems like the impossible is solved within some time, miracles takes a  little bit more time.  ;)

Ususally a candlestick would not work with a network like yours, but if the cord to the candlestick has 5 wires it is easy to solve. With only 3 as usual, we have to figure out something.

dsk
Thanks the wire from the candlestick to the ringer has 4 wires in it.. and they are all hooked up in the ringer...do you want me to remove the bottom of the candlestick and post where the wires are attached ?

Offline 1TIMESONE1

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2012, 09:52:36 PM »
A little bit more info, and we will find a way to make the candlestick working.
Some picture of the wires in the candlestick with the bottom plate removed.

With all the expertise in this forum, it seems like the impossible is solved within some time, miracles takes a  little bit more time.  ;)

Ususally a candlestick would not work with a network like yours, but if the cord to the candlestick has 5 wires it is easy to solve. With only 3 as usual, we have to figure out something.

dsk
Thanks the wire from the candlestick to the ringer has 4 wires in it.. and they are all hooked up in the ringer...do you want me to remove the bottom of the candlestick and post where the wires are attached ?



Here is the photo of the candlestick base.  The circuit wire from the power clips off the 12volt source close when receiver is lifted.

The ear piece has 3 wires, yellow not hooked, red connected to yellow back to ringer base in 4 wire, green to green back to ringer base in 4 wire.

The 4 wire red connects to yellow in base up to mouthpiece and black returns down back through 4 wire to ringer box. 

White wire in 4wire (that I hooked to GN), is not hooked up at all. ha

So now how to remove the required 12volt supply from the battery

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2012, 09:57:58 PM »
Goodness me, that looks like it's been wired up by a complete redneck, looks like they've taken out the hookswitch in the base and taken the transmitter and receiver's connections to the 425E network and the hookswitch with the solenoid, and the solenoid is switched by the hookswitch in the candlestick.... :o

I could be wrong, but, goodness me, if I'd have bought that I'd be asking for my money back!!!  :o

Offline G-Man

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Re: WESTERN ELECTRIC MODEL 500 RINGER BOX WITH Kellogg F118 Candlestick
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 12:29:46 AM »
Goodness me, that looks like it's been wired up by a complete redneck, looks like they've taken out the hookswitch in the base and taken the transmitter and receiver's connections to the 425E network and the hookswitch with the solenoid, and the solenoid is switched by the hookswitch in the candlestick.... :o

I could be wrong, but, goodness me, if I'd have bought that I'd be asking for my money back!!!  :o
GMAN Wrote:
Wow, this is a real hack. You should demand a partial refund from the seller for the lack of documentation and extremely poor workmanship.

Heh, Heh....  twocvbloke, You're Peaching to the Choir - Amen! ;D