Automatic Electric model 50 that does not ring on receiving a call.

[nytelephoneguy]

I am a new member to this forum. I recently bought an Automatic Electric Model 50 wall phone in excellent condition.
I can call out and receive calls; but the ringer does not work. It appears the phone has all the original cloth wiring; hard to see colors on the cloth covering. I have tried different wiring configurations. I currently have Ring (RED) wire from line cord on L1 terminal, and Green (Tip) wire on L2. I have a Western Electric 302 that works with its ringer on the same modular jack. Any ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[AE_Collector]

Two potential problems. Check that the ringer is across L1 & L2. One of the ringer leads could quite likely be hooked to a ground terminal in the phone for party line set up. This was the default arrangement back in the era of the AE 50.

Second possibility is a frequency ringer, again for party lines. A picture of the ringer itself and we can tell you real fast if that is the problem.

Welcome to the forum! We will help you get it working. Here are a couple of existing topics to read and see what  a SL versus Freq ringer look like. You want a SL (Straight Line) Ringer.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8929.0

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8490.0

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=9087.0

Terry

[nytelephoneguy]

Thank you Terry;

I did  take a voltage reading at each ringer coil when dialing this phone. The right ringer coil reads 63 volts but left ringer coil showed 34 volts at each wire going to coils. Need to check suggested wiring. There is no connection to the GR screw on terminal strip but soldered wire underneath. Maybe I need jumper GR to L2.  I will try your suggestions tonight. Glad I found this forum.

PS: How do you post pictures?

John

[DavePEI]

PS: How do you post pictures?

John

See: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8990.0

Dave

[nytelephoneguy]

Dave:

Thank you for the link.

John

[nytelephoneguy]

Terry:

I am including photos of my ringer and the schematic that was on the phone. From the schematic with the switch on hook I traced continuity from L2 with the green wire to the ringer and through closed switch to the negative side of the capacitor. From the positive side of the capacitor I have continuity to L1. There are no connections to terminal strip G. All other connections follow the schematic. Across the 2 ringer coils I get 3.9K ohms. Still cannot get ringer to work. Could the capacitor be bad or the ringer coils. The ringer appears to be a SL ringer. Any thoughts?

John

[stub]

John,
        Welcome to the CRPF , on the 1st and 2nd pic , the bent tab that holds the bias spring at the top of your ringer( pointing away from  the bells) , is it touching the soldered connection between the ringer coils in the middle , make sure that nothing is in between the hammer pivot( at bottom of ringer)and ringer coils, so it can move easy.
        You can also remove the yellow line in wire and use just the red and green. Hope this helps.  stub

[AE_Collector]

Yes everything looks good, remove yellow line cord lead as Stub mentioned. It is a SL ringer. I know you mentioned tha your 302 rings. What is your source of dial tone and ringing? Can you easily make the hammer hit the bells with your fingers?

Terry

[nytelephoneguy]

Stub and Terry:

I just added the yellow wire in case. I can easily make the bells ring with my fingers. The pivot point is free and clear. The previous owner said the ringer worked but he did not remember the connections; his wife removed the phone off the wall he states. The phone is connected to standard RJ11 receptacle running off a Verizon Fios network. They accept either pulse or tone equipment.

John

[AE_Collector]

I'm wondering if the FIOS ATA (is that what it is called?) is putting out enough current to ring the AE 50 bells. I know it rings your 302 with a mechanical ringer but maybe the specs are a little different on the AE ringer. Can you try to ring it with the cover off of the 50 so you can see (or carefully feel with your fingers) if it is "trying" to ring (vibrating a little bit).

Presumably it could also be a bad capacitor. Stub has shown many times in other threads how to insert a Radio Shack capacitor into the circuit to see if that gets it ringing.

Terry

[stub]

John,
        Disconnect your line in wires and hook a meter across them, set on 100 AC volts and see how much voltage you are getting thru your FIOS ATA when you call your house phone from cell. I have 75 volts AC   on my POTS line at home .
         You can get a RS capacitor, 1 mfd.@250 volts, and disconnect your ringer(both wires) and hook your red ( line in wire) to one side of ringer and place one leg of capacitor to the other side of ringer , then connect the green to the other side of capacitor. If it rings your capacitor could be bad .

stub

[stub]

John,
       I just checked my AE 50 ringer and it is 1442 ohms across both coils with wires disconnected from phone. You may be looking for another ringer.
stub

[nytelephoneguy]

Thank you all for your replies:

I measured the ringer voltage coming in at 47.9 volts. I remember when I worked at NY Telephone that ringer voltage was 48 volts. I disconnected wires at ringer coils and there is 3.9k across the coils in series.
I do not feel any vibrations from ringer when calling in.
Stub; Was the capacitor .1uf 250V or 1uf 250v? The original is .2uf at 500v.

[poplar1]

CO uses 48VDC talking battery, 90 VAC 20 cycle for ringing.

[nytelephoneguy]

Thank you poplar1.

I was at NY TEL 40 years ago. I am still able to ring my WE 302 with this voltage. I also found an AT&T 500DM in my collection that rings on this land line.

John