Western Electric Continental - Released with Metal Finger Wheel??

[Dennis Markham]

We usually see the Continental phones with the open center finger wheel.  I have seen some older painted sets, from years before the release of the Continental with metal wheels.

I was sent a few photos of a Moss Green Continental (attached) and asked my "opinion" of the telephone.  We can see that the original body date is from the second quarter of 1935.  That photo also shows that the dial is a #6 which would be later than the usual conversion date---sometime in the mid 1950's.  The owner indicates that the phone was reported to have been inside the Edgewater Hotel in Chicago.  That hotel was located at 5349 N. Sheridan in the "Edgewater District" of Chicago.  It closed in 1967.  There is a lot of info on the web about the hotel but I have been unable to verify that telephone number.  I'm sure an old telephone directory would be able to substantiate that.

So my questions are, do you think the metal finger wheel is original to a converted phone of the mid 1950's or do you think it was added later, perhaps when the dial was changed?  I am trying to get a reply on the dates on the cordage which may supply the later date.  The cords are black, not gray. 

Secondly, does anyone out there have a Chicago telephone directory from 1967 or earlier?  I did some searching at the public library sites and the Library of Congress but it gets quite detailed as far as getting information.  Nothing is available for searching (that I've found) via the internet.

Thank you.

~Dennis

[jsowers]

I am trying to get a reply on the dates on the cordage which may supply the later date.  The cords are black, not gray. 

Dennis, that's an interesting research project. Ask for the dates on the capsules in the handset while you're at it. Many of the Continentals and Imperials have 1950s handset capsules with converter rings. Also that number card is a type I usually associate with the 1950s--no black mask or "Wait for Dial Tone." The telephone archive calls it a "Type III." They have an EDgewater card pictured that's very similar.

In a hotel in the 1940s and 50s, you wouldn't have a dial on a phone in most cases, would you? There was a hotel switchboard that got the number for you. Maybe someone converted this to dial later? I don't think dial phones in motels and hotels were available until maybe the late 1950s, and then it was with 500-type sets like the 500 W/Y with the message waiting light or the 543 keyset. Most motel phones I remember from the 1960s were manual (non-dial) phones. I'd be interested to know if others remember that as well.

[LarryInMichigan]

Dennis,

The phone number would be correct for the Edgewater neighborhood of Chicago.  I was born about a mile from that hotel, though I don't remember ever seeing it.

Larry

[Dennis Markham]

Jonathan, I did think about the fact that a room would not have a dial.  Even the front desk wouldn't have a phone like this, normally.  Perhaps an office, or unless there was a "courtesy" phone in the lobby for guests to use.  I will try and get some additional dates of the components.

Larry, that is interesting that you were born so close to that hotel.  From what I read on-line it appears to have been a popular place to stay in its hey-day.

[Phonesrfun]

I would be interested if that number is authentic. 

The reason I am curious is because a major hotel would have a "catchy" number that is easy to remember, like the notorious Pensylvania 6-5000.  The Edgewater 4-2448 number seems too much like a common old residential number.

Usually the larger public libraries have old phone books.

[Dennis Markham]

Bill, when I searched the Library of Congress they actually provide a list of people locally that will, for a fee of course, drop by the library and search the microfilm or microfiche.  I'm not involved enough to get into that project.  I did send an e-mail to a person that has a blog pertaining the Chicago history.  Perhaps they'll be able to verify the phone number.

What you said makes perfect sense as well---regarding the business number vs a residential number.

[Russ Kirk]

I would be interested if that number is authentic. 

The reason I am curious is because a major hotel would have a "catchy" number that is easy to remember, like the notorious Pensylvania 6-5000.  The Edgewater 4-2448 number seems too much like a common old residential number.

Usually the larger public libraries have old phone books.

I think this may be the case.  But,  the phone could have been used as a direct line for a department in the hotel,  such as catering, purchasing or the Hotel Manager's office.  I agree it is highly unlikely it was for the main line or a guest room.

Russ...

[Phonesrfun]

But,  the phone could have been used as a direct line for a department in the hotel,  such as catering, purchasing or the Hotel Manager's office. 

I was thinking of that too.  If it winds up not being the main hotel number, we may never know, unless someone can come up with a reverse phone directory from Chicago from the '60's which ain't too likely. 

To Dennis:

I have never seen a Continental without the plastic open faced finger wheel, but I am continuously amazed at how much I find out about phone company nuances that I never would have guessed.  It could be that it once had a dial with a plastic finger wheel that subsequently had a transplant to the #6 with metal (looks like aluminum) finger wheel.

[Dennis Markham]

Bill, I thought that perhaps it could have been a special request (the aluminum wheel) to appear more "elegant". 

If a phone directory from anytime prior to and including 1967 could be found, one would just have to look up the hotel name and see the number.  However, a special area, or office may have had a different listing.

[Phonesrfun]

Chicago might be different than Portland, OR or Yakima, WA, but I have called both these libraries and asked them to check old phone book listings before, and they have obliged.


In Portland's Multnomah County library, the phone books are kept in a mysterious vault called the "stacks" that only library personnel are allowed to go in, and the books can only be used within the library.  But, what the heck, it's worth a call, eh?

[Dennis Markham]

Good point, Bill.  I'm continuing my "investigation".

[Doug Rose]

Dennis....I was always under the impression the the color 302s and the Continentals came with burnished silver finger wheels and retainers as well as the clear plastic open face dials.

Is the color that off on the green continental, base looks gray and the handset looks green. Maybe its the flash. I saw a very similar phone withe the exact colorings on eBay in the past few weeks.....Doug

[AE_Collector]

Dennis:

Keep in mind that we haven't had named exchanges for 50 years now. So while someone reported that it had been in the Edgewater Hotel and it has an Edgewater number card on it, there are probably more people in the area that recall the Edgewater Hotel than the Edgewater Exchange Name. My point is that having Edgewater written on the number card is likely enough to have people saying that it likely came from the Edgewater Hotel.

Sort of like on ebay when people list manual phones as "Answer Only" phones. They are totally unaware of the era when phones didn't have dials on them at all so they assume they were a cheaper option for an extension phone where you could answer but not dial out.

Terry

[JimH]

For some reason the Green Continentals did all originally have the brushed aluminum finger wheels.  Something about it went with the green color the best, and they were able to reuse the 5H or 6H dials.....the one I have has the aluminum finger wheel, and all the "original" ones I've seen have also. From the November, 1990 issue of "Singing Wires", TCI's newsletter:

A Systems Practice dated March, 1955, states that the 202 was available at that time in Black, Ivory, Gray-Green and Pekin Red. These sets had painted F-1 handsets and white lacquered dial cases with transparent plastic finger wheels. That's what Practices says, however all the Green 202's we've found have had the annodized aluminum finger wheel.

[Dennis Markham]

My point is that having Edgewater written on the number card is likely enough to have people saying that it likely came from the Edgewater Hotel.
Terry

Terry, that is a good point about confusion over the EDgewater exchange.  I hope to get more information regarding this.

Doug, I don't have the phone in my possession so I can't clarify the color.  I thought the wheel looks a little blue too but assumed it was lighting.  The handset and base appear to be slightly different colors.

JimH, thank you for the information you provided from Singing Wires.  I have or have owned three of the Green Continentals.  All had the clear plastic finger wheels.